MARTIN GROSS
MARTIN GROSS
Based on all the research you've done on the Whitewater story, what do you think is the bottom line?
The bottom line is that the President and the First Lady were involved in what has been described as a criminal enterprise -- Madison Guaranty, a state chartered bank -- at a time when he was the governor of the state and she was the attorney for the bank. Simultaneously, they were partners with the owner of the bank, which was probably an unethical position for both of them. They are also probably guilty of tax evasion. They said their overstated "losses" on Whitewater was a "mistake" -- which was impossible to make. They paid the government back, but the problem is if you or I did it, we'd go to jail for fraud. And there were other cases of tax evasion, including a $300,000 "loan" which should count as personal income, but was never reported to the IRS.
What do you think will happen to them?
Their lying, which has a sort of pathological pattern, is now being uncovered. But even though there may be an impeachable offense -- like obstruction of justice -- my guess is that the country is not intent on prosecuting the First Lady and the President. Too much aggravation. But the Clintons' reputations will be permanently besmirched. I think they're finished in the public mind. Clinton will lose the election, unless (Ross) Perot runs.
Were the Clintons knowingly criminal?
No, no. Who knows? It's like asking whether an attorney for the Mafia is a made guy or just an attorney representing a client. Basically, they're philosophically a corrupt couple. She talks about the "decade of greed." But she's a very greedy individual. A stockbroker in Little Rock said she was on the phone all day long -- in addition to running her husband's campaigns, helping on education, taking care of her children. I knew many people like her when I taught college in the '60s. They are imbued with their righteousness, but their righteousness tends to be abstract, and has absolutely nothing to do with their own morality.
Is it that -- what the Clintons represent -- that gets under your skin?
It's what they did. How can you keep subpoenaed records in your family quarters for two years and claim you don't know where they are, and suddenly have them show up on a table? You have to be a child to believe that. Obviously they're lying. Why are they lying? Because they don't have any morality, otherwise they wouldn't lie. Basically we're dealing with an amoral couple, or immoral couple. The Clintons are a perfect paradigm of self-aggrandizement. Our process of democracy is being destroyed, and they are two people who are helping to destroy it.