Master spy novelist John le Carré sat down recently with journalist Orville Schell for an onstage interview sponsored by City Arts and Lectures in San Francisco. Highlights from their conversation follow.

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You seem inevitably drawn back to questions of spies, covert operations and the "great game."

It's my country house. It's the way in which I was brought up to look at the world. I was swept up very early into Cold War stuff, when I became a little spook, and then a slightly bigger spook. It was exactly right for my misshapen mentality that I should have seen the world through that particular arrow-slit. And it is still the metaphor that I use for writing about the world. But every artist is some kind of spy, in that he makes observations which are clandestine -- he can't share them. He's got to shape what he finds, make his report. And there is something of the secret sovereignty of the artist that is found in the spy also: in his vanity.

Do you ever imagine you would get to a point in your life where you say, "Enough"?

Yes, that worries me. Unless I get off my backside and explore, and expose myself to experience, I find myself retrieving memory, in a softer way than I would wish. I feel I can do anything, I feel wonderful. But I'm scared. I'm not sure that the performance actually will have the cutting edge I would wish. So I find myself trolleying around places, and trying to live at the sharp edge. I knew Graham Greene a bit -- I don't think anyone knew him much more than a bit -- but I think he should have stopped about five books earlier than he did. I don't know anybody who's done it. Most of us fade gracelessly from the scene.

What do you think about the current state of publishing and journalism?

The decline of The New Yorker is serious. It was the last court of decent magazine writing; it was discreetly brave. (Now it has embarked on a) journey of fashionableness -- I'm trying to think of something flattering.

The decline of publishing is extraordinary. The process of publishing was never gentlemanly or leisurely. But it began with the book, with the material. The editorial process was long and thoughtful, and the editing and the accuracy was a matter of pride to the house. Now, largely because of the multimedia connections of publishing, something quite different is required of writers. The speed with which a book can be written physically on a word processor goes hand in hand with the appetite in the industry to get books out, give them a short life, put the author on the road, and spew the whole thing out again. It's producing a breed of self-promoter. And those appalling chat shows. We really take them seriously. This is a world that actually takes Larry King seriously. And...we must stop! We really must stop! (Applause.) These are false gods.

To order a cassette of the complete interview, send $15 (includes shipping and handling) to Pacific Vista Productions, 101 H St., Suite D, Petaluma, CA 94952, or phone 1-800-595-TALK and leave your order and credit card number on the voice mail.