Roy Ashburn

Don’t ask — he won’t tell

GOP Senate hopeful Mark Foley announces he won't answer questions about his sexuality. Should voters care?

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Don't ask -- he won't tell

On Thursday afternoon, Rep. Mark Foley, R-Fla. — a possible candidate for the Senate in 2004 — held a conference call with a handful of Florida reporters that perfectly captured a dilemma in which he finds himself. The subject of the call was the same matter that he refused to directly address within the call, and it is the one that has quietly dogged him for years: Is he, or is he not, a heterosexual?

Foley, according to a source familiar with the conference call, told reporters that he was hosting the call because he’d heard that one of the biggest newspapers in his district — the Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, whose reporters were not invited on the call — planned on being the first newspaper in the “mainstream” press to write about his sexual orientation, following on the heels of some alternative newspapers that had raised the issue. Some things — like a politician’s religious affiliation — are for public consumption even though there are people who don’t think they should be, said Foley, a 48-year-old bachelor. But some things just aren’t for public consumption, he said, and with that in mind, Foley declared that he was not going to answer the question as to whether he’s gay. People have a right to privacy, he said, and that’s his position on the matter and how it will remain throughout his campaign for the Senate.

Until Thursday, Foley had yet to acknowledge these stories publicly; if he had his druthers, they would all just go away. Maybe they will. But the matter raises a provocative question: How much do we really have a right to know about our elected politicians? And it also raises inevitable questions about Foley’s own party. If Foley continues to ignore the question, there will be plenty of people who will assume he is simply hiding his homosexuality. And for a Republican Party stigmatized in recent months by comments widely perceived as anti-gay by its No. 3 man in the Senate, it raises the question of whether Foley believes his party faithful, among others, will reject him if he reveals his sexuality.

Foley’s office noted that myriad Republican officials were issuing statements on his behalf. The one issued by Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo., states: “Mark is one of my Deputy Whips. He is a key part of virtually every bit of work that we get done up here. He is an integral part of our team, and I value his help, advice, and understanding of what needs to be done and how to get it done.”

Presumably Blunt is reading from the textbook of those, like Charles Francis, a friend of President George W. Bush and co-chair of the influential Republican Unity Coalition, who think that Foley’s answer is totally acceptable and should be left right there. “I believe in the ‘non-issue’ approach,” Francis tells Salon. “Homosexuality as a non-issue is something that Republicans aspire to, it’s the president’s worldview, and it’s something I’ve tried to create at the Republican Unity Coalition.” Foley’s non-answer to the question would seem to fit in with the non-issue theory. “He has the right to say what he wants about his private life as he faces the voters,” Francis says. “God bless him, and good luck.”

Another prominent gay Republican organization agrees. “Our position is that our first priority is turning what is now a Democratic seat in the Senate to the Republican side,” says Patrick Guerriero, executive director of the Log Cabin Republicans. “We’re less concerned with any of the candidates’ sexual orientation than where they stand on issues of fairness.” Guerriero noted that Foley’s probable GOP primary opponent, conservative former Rep. Bill McCollum, sponsored a hate-crimes bill that offered protection to gays and lesbians, “so we have two candidates who have some track record on being right on our issues.”

He issues a warning to Democrats looking to exploit Foley’s discomfort. “I hope we’re not coming to a time when every single candidate will be asked to tell every single thing about their personal life,” he says. “The Democrats should know that this would be walking down a very dangerous path.” After all, as another Republican activist points out, there are plenty of rumors about the sexuality of a current Democratic senator and two Clinton administration Cabinet officials. People in glass houses (however divinely decorated)…

Even some partisan Democrats agree. “I think he has a right to take” the position of not answering the question, says openly gay Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass. “I used to take that position 17 years ago.” Careful to not address the issue of Foley’s sexuality one way or another, Frank says he disagrees with gays who refuse to acknowledge their sexuality. “While I do think you have right to keep things private, when you do that, it leaves an implication that there’s something wrong with it.”

And at least one veteran of the Clinton era, epitomized by what he called the “politics of personal destruction,” feels Foley will be facing this question for as long as he pursues the Senate seat. “Anybody, whether they’re gay or straight, they have a right to their own sex life,” says James Carville, a former Clinton campaign official and now co-host of CNN’s “Crossfire.” “But I doubt there’s much he can do to stop this. He can have all the conference calls he wants.”

And liberals will be the least of Foley’s worries. Lori Waters, executive director of the conservative Eagle Forum, tells Salon that what matters most to her organization “is how he votes, and he is not a conservative. If he’s out there pushing the gay agenda, we’re very much opposed to those things, and I would hope the voters in Florida would be as well.” But even a candidate with a strong record on the issues that Eagle Forum cares about — Foley scored 65 percent on its 2002 voting chart — couldn’t assume Eagle Forum support if he or she is gay.

“We certainly don’t agree with the gay lifestyle,” Waters says, “and when it comes to our decison-making for the PAC as to who we support, we have to give to people who are consistent with the values of those people who give to us.” If a conservative candidate were gay, “that would be a real stumbling block,” she says.

Even some of those who support Foley’s right to privacy see situations in which he might have trouble continuing his refusal to answer the question. Frank says that Foley will be trying to join the U.S. Senate, “a body in which Rick Santorum is the third-ranking member. So it’s not entirely irrelevant.” Last month Santorum, R-Pa., gave an interview to the Associated Press in which he likened the legality of homosexuality to that of bigamy, incest and bestiality. If a GOP senator is elected from Florida in November 2004 — Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., is currently running for president and may or may not seek reelection — that individual will cast a vote either for or against Santorum, now the chairman of the Senate GOP Conference and a possible future candidate for Senate Majority Leader.

Francis allows that asking how Foley would vote on Santorum’s anticipated leadership races would be a fair question, as would Foley’s thoughts on Santorum’s remarks — which he has yet to make public. And that seems to be the problem: That line of questioning leads directly to logical questions about how Foley feels about a man who thinks that gay relationships have no more legal basis than incestuous ones, and no more right to acceptance in society than what Santorum called “man on dog.” And that leads to perfectly reasonable questions about why he personally feels that way.

Moreover, in a political primary — especially a Republican one where Christian conservatives make up much of the base, not to mention one in a Southern state like Florida — whispers that Foley is gay, regardless of their accuracy, will likely have an effect on the race.

Carville, who hails from Louisiana, argues that there’s no way to know how such a matter will factor into the election. “There are very few acknowledged gays who have run in Republican primaries in the South, so you don’t really know,” he says. “I mean, you can’t go to a racing form and see what they traditionally do. My guess is it’s not going to be terribly helpful.”

Many of Foley’s likely voters, Carville says, consider homosexuality “a sin and an abomination against nature.” If some religious voters look at homosexuality as “immoral conduct that cannot be tolerated,” Carville doesn’t see how they could just brush the matter off, as Foley seems to hope they will do. “He goes and campaigns in some of these fundamentalist churches where they are, if I thought it was a sin and an abomination, I’d ask him, right there, ‘Are you a sodomite?’”

If a candidate tried to evade questions about whether he attends meetings of the Ku Klux Klan, Carville says, “it wouldn’t be enough to say, I’m not going to answer that. You’d have to answer that before I’d vote for you. And a lot of fundamentalist Christians view homosexuality the way I view the Klan.”

These issues are what prompted the April 26 Sun-Sentinel column by Buddy Nevins, which artfully tap-danced around the issue by focusing on how Foley’s liberal bent on issues of gay and lesbian rights — in 2000, he merited a 100 percent rating by the Human Rights Campaign, which bills itself as the nation’s leading “lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equal rights” organization — seemed incongruous with his conservatism on other issues. “I believe — as a longtime political writer and columnist in the state of Florida for over 20 years — that this will affect his campaign,” Nevins tells Salon. “We will continue to look at this subject and follow it.”

Nevins broached the matter with the congressman of how those votes might hurt him in a GOP primary, and says he took note of Foley’s discomfort in discussing the matter. Foley is “clearly uncomfortable talking about gay rights in this campaign,” Nevins wrote. “His speech slowed and his face darkened when asked a question about it.” Foley told Nevins that he hoped “people would understand that those votes are fairness issues — nondiscrimination against employees and things like that.”

Following that story came a May 8 cover story in an area alternative weekly, the New Times of Broward-Palm Beach, titled “Out With the Truth: With His Voting Record at Issue, Why Won’t U.S. Congressman Mark Foley Just Say That He’s Gay?” That story prompted a May 22 cover story in the Washington Blade, a gay and lesbian newspaper in D.C. “Newspaper Outs Fla. Congressman,” read the Blade’s headline. “Republican Mark Foley’s Staff Says Sexual Orientation Irrelevant to Senate Bid.”

Throughout it all, Foley remained mum. “Frankly, I don’t think what kind of personal relationships I have in my private life is of any relevance to anyone else,” Foley said in 1996 when the Advocate claimed he was gay in a story about the Defense of Marriage Act, legislation against the federal recognition of gay and lesbian marriage. Foley, along with most other members of Congress and President Clinton, supported the legislation. “I know one thing for certain: When I travel around the district every weekend, the people who attend my town meetings and stop me on the street corner certainly are a lot more concerned with issues like how I voted on welfare reform or whether or not Medicare is going to be there when they need it — not the details of whom I choose to have a relationship with.”

The only time Foley seemed to answer the question came back in 1994, when he first ran for Congress. When asked about his sexuality by his hometown newspaper, the Stuart (Fla.) News, Foley responded: “I like women.”

Guerriero of the Log Cabin Republicans says Foley’s record should suffice. “Mark Foley’s record on matters of fairness to all Americans of all walks of life is clear and unequivocal and makes it clear he does not concur with the sentiments expressed by Sen. Santorum,” he says. “While we welcome Republicans and Democrats to speak out against Santorum’s comments, which were so hurtful to some members of our American family, we’re far more interested in the comprehensive nature of their public service.”

Towson Fraser, communications director for the Florida Republican Party, agrees that Foley should be judged on his record and nothing else. He acknowledges that the recent stories have not escaped notice down in Tallahassee but refuses to touch them. “From our standpoint,” Fraser says, “Congressman Foley is a valued member of our Republican family. He has a strong conservative record of supporting the president, and we’re not going to get into that kind of gossip and innuendo.” Won’t Foley have to address the question? “That’s a question for him,” Fraser says. “We’re not going to allow our primary and eventually the U.S. Senate race to degenerate into a contest of nasty rumors and gossip.”

But privately, many Republican officials acknowledge that Foley will sooner or later have to address the matter — and they hope it will be sooner. Many consider Foley to be a strong and appealing candidate who could run a strong race, though they acknowledge that if he’s gay, that could hurt him in some more conservative areas of the state, particularly if the Democratic party nominates a moderate-to-conservative candidate.

What of the inevitable questions that will come from Democratic attack dogs regarding what they would characterize as the intrusive nature of Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr’s investigation and the impeachment proceedings against President Clinton? Foley, after all, voted in favor of two of the four articles of impeachment.

“It’s apples and oranges,” says Francis. “Monica Lewinsky was a private affair gone public.” Guerriero agrees, saying that while there was “overkill,” “the president brought that scandal upon himself and brought it into the Oval Office.”

Carville says he doesn’t think Foley’s role in Clinton’s impeachment should have any bearing one way or another, but that the Santorum questions seem a more convincing way that this could become an issue in his race.

Frank, the Massachusetts representative, points to three recent races where gay Republican candidates were defeated in primaries and says that, though Foley’s non-answer might work, he doubts it will. “I would think his dilemma is in part because he thinks if people think he’s gay — and I’ve carefully not commented on whether he is or he isn’t — they would hold it against him,” Frank says. “Some of the right-wingers, however, seem to accept gay candidates as long as they seem kind of abashed by it.”

Gay Republicans appealing to conservative voters may take solace that some “seem to accept the fact that being gay is beyond their control,” though they “wouldn’t accept someone acknowledging being gay if he appears to be unashamed of it,” Frank says. Thus, a gay Republican might be OK not denying that he’s gay, the congressman says, “as long as he appears to not be happy about it.”

Jake Tapper is national correspondent for Salon.

Do as I say, not as I do

Slide show: You can add Roy Ashburn to the long line of anti-gay politicians who don't practice what they preach

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Do as I say, not as I do

View the slide show

As a California state senator, Roy Ashburn has been remarkably consistent on at least one issue: Every single time he’s voted on a gay-rights measure, he’s voted “no.”

We’ll see whether that changes now that Ashburn has admitted that he is, in fact, gay. Ashburn, whose sexuality came to light when he was arrested for driving drunk after allegedly leaving a gay bar, says he was just doing what his constituents wanted.

Of course, he’s hardly the first anti-gay political figure to lead a hypocritical private life. Some, like Ashburn, have been compelled to make public admissions.  Others have denied it, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, sometimes even to their graves. What follows is Salon’s slide-show look at some of the most famous anti-gay hypocrites of recent years.

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Anti-gay rights California Sen. Roy Ashburn comes out as gay

Disclosure follows news that senator was arrested for drunk driving after leaving gay bar

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Anti-gay rights California Sen. Roy Ashburn comes out as gayState Sen. Roy Ashburn, R-Bakersfield, is seen in this booking photo, after being arrested March 3 for drunk driving.

During his time in California’s Senate, Roy Ashburn voted against every single gay rights measure that came up. That made the story of his arrest two weeks ago — he was pulled over for drunk driving after leaving a gay bar, and he had another man in the car with him — more than a little interesting.

On Monday, Ashburn admitted to what everyone had pretty much figured out now.

“I’m gay,” he said in a radio interview. “Those are the words that have been so difficult for me for so long.” The Sacramento Bee’s Capitol Alert blog reports that Ashburn explained that he voted the way he did on gay rights because he felt that’s what the voters of his district wanted.

Alex Koppelman is a staff writer for Salon.

Gay men go to hell

"God Says No" author James Hannaham talks about religious repression, life in the closet -- and sex in the bathroom

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Gay men go to hell

At a time when legal gay marriage is spreading across the country and when “American Idol’s” Adam Lambert’s coming out on the cover of Rolling Stone elicits not a gasp but a shrug, it’s easy to forget just how shameful and bewildering being gay in America can be. Just last week, a reminder of that came in the form of a jaw-dropping video from a Connecticut church that showed an apparent “gay exorcism” — a preacher grabbing hold of a teenage boy and trying with every ounce of his fearsome, trembling baritone to shock the gay devil out of the kid.

It’s a scene that could almost have been lifted from “God Says No,” the first novel by James Hannaham, about a closeted black man trying to navigate the opposing forces of his faith and his desire. Protagonist Gary Gray grows up in the hell-and-brimstone black churches of Charleston, S.C., and marries a sweet Samoan woman from his Christian college in central Florida, but that’s not enough to keep him from hungry grope-and-pokes in the Waffle House bathroom with anonymous men, followed by prayer on bended knee. As familiar as this setup might seem from a dozen shame-drenched political press conferences, Hannaham shifts the trajectory in an unpredictable story that zigzags from the Atlanta avant garde theater scene to a religious reparative therapy program called Resurrection Ministries, where men like Gary struggle to purge their sinful desires.

A creative writing teacher at the Pratt Institute, Hannaham is a former staff writer for Salon, where he once penned a piece about infamous men’s bathroom dweller Larry Craig. “Most homosexual men spend our formative years in the closet,” he wrote, “and once we come out, we tend to deny that closetedness has its pleasures — and damned juicy ones, truth be told. Having a secret, perhaps double, life gives you a sense of importance, of life as drama.” “God Says No” follows as that drama unfolds in original, startling ways. Hannaham was on a tour of the Deep South when we spoke to him about famous political same-sex scandals, outing celebrities and politicians and why Christian programs that try to convert homosexuals aren’t entirely evil.

You’re a culture writer who lives in godless New York City, and yet you’ve written this book about a very religious man in central Florida. What was interesting to you about that subject matter?

I was interested in faith — in particular a faith that falls over into delusion. Although I’m not sure that faith doesn’t always fall into delusion. There’s so much religion in my background, but I’m a little cut off from it. My mother took me out of church when I was a young boy. But if you go way back in my family there are two things: ministers and teachers. My great-grandfather was an itinerant minister who founded two churches. And I guess there’s not that much of a difference between being an itinerant minister and traveling around on your book tour.

Going into the world of someone so deeply closeted — what did you learn?

I don’t want to say I softened about reparative therapy [also known as conversion therapy], but I did realize that it is a place where people who definitely don’t want to be gay can talk about being gay, which is something rare for them. They can move away from self-hatred. Maybe I’m romanticizing it. But if you are worried that you might be gay, there are very few places that will even entertain the question, “How do I get rid of this?” Of course, ultimately, I don’t think it works.

We live in New York, where reparative therapies are kind of a joke, but I certainly had gay friends in Texas whose mothers suggested it. And they weren’t bad mothers at all. Very loving, in fact.

I actually thought the people involved would be a bit more punishing. On the surface it’s: We want the best for you, Christ loves you, Christ doesn’t agree with this. It’s upbeat and friendly. They just have this line that they won’t cross as far as compassion goes. It’s pretty typical that it’s the parents who want the kid to go — as opposed to the kid himself. The dilemma of gay people worldwide is that we are, for the most part, raised by heterosexual parents who don’t understand what homosexuality is. Everyone has to crawl through the tunnel of self-hatred to get where they are.

While you were writing this book, there were several scandals involving closeted religious men: Ted Haggard, Jim McGreevey, Mark Foley, Larry Craig. Were you influenced by their stories?

Strangely, the book was largely in place when those scandals broke. I loved the detail that McGreevey used to overcompensate by going to strip clubs. I wish there was video of that. I was thrilled by their stories, in part because they proved to me that we’re not over these issues, and the book would be timely no matter when it came out (so to speak).

A lot of action takes place in men’s bathrooms. You wrote a great story for Salon, after the Larry Craig scandal broke, about why bathroom sex is hot.

Are you going to ask if I had sex in a bathroom?

You said in that article that you haven’t. Should I believe you?

Yes, I’m too romantic for bathroom sex. There were early experiences where I might have done it. I guess I didn’t have the guts — which is odd to say, because it seems like a cowardly thing to do. You’re treating another person as an object. But it takes chutzpah, if not guts.

But what makes it hot?

The big lie about anonymous sex is that it’s anonymous. If you meet someone in a bar you’re going to see them in the next few weeks. You’re going to run into them at a party or something. If it’s an encounter in an airport bathroom it’s pretty much as anonymous as you can get. It also probably feels like you’re doing something really sleazy and naughty-hot. I feel hypocritical explaining the allure having never done it, though I’m fascinated by the psychology of someone who would.

What do you think about movies like Kirby Dick’s “Outrage,” which outs some conservative politicians, or critics like Michael Musto who have made campaigns out of rattling the celebrity closet?

People who are not out and are hurting the community should be outed. People who are gay and aren’t hurting anybody should be left alone. I mean, Rosie O’Donnell — they hounded her for years to come out and now she did, and how obnoxious is she? Did we really need her as a spokesperson? Do I really want Tom Cruise fighting for my cause? No, thanks. But then you look at someone like Steve Gunderson, a congressman from Wisconsin, who voted anti-gay while he was in the closet and was outed and he’s completely changed his position now. He was the only Republican to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act. How anti-gay can you be once everyone knows you’re gay?

An important aspect to your central character, Gary, is that he’s overweight and not what you’d call good-looking. Why give him those qualities?

Gary’s not actually ugly, in my view, but other characters tend to conflate his weight with ugliness. I had weight issues when I was younger. But also, I wanted him to be somebody who was overlooked in any number of ways. Being overweight can make you marginalized in the gay community, which is full of former fat guys who hate fat people out of fear.

I met this guy from South Carolina who said he became fat to avoid dating a girl. Food is also comforting. Food can’t reject you. Gary’s problem, even more than being gay or fat, is that he can’t control his appetites in general. Everything is intense for him, and he doesn’t know how to deal with it, so he lives in this place where he ‘s being told not to value his pleasures and to think of them as pathologies. That’s what causes him such deep anguish. And makes him a normal American, ultimately.

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Sarah Hepola is an editor at Salon.

Behind Washington’s closet door

Closeted gay politicians like you-know-who and hm-hm aren't just personally screwed-up, says filmmaker Kirby Dick. They're hopelessly distorting democracy.

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Behind Washington's closet door

Larry Craig’s mug shot in “Outrage.” Photo courtesy of Magnolia Pictures

Listen to the interview with Kirby Dick

Almost 30 years ago, during the political season of 1980 that would end with Ronald Reagan’s landslide election, a congressional sex scandal briefly drove Reagan, sitting President Jimmy Carter and the American hostages in Tehran off the front page. Rep. Bob Bauman, R-Md., a rising star in conservative politics whom many saw as a future House speaker, was arrested for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old male prostitute. Bauman apologized to his wife and family, announced he was seeking treatment for alcoholism and unspecified personal problems, and disappeared into rehab without addressing any of the obvious questions arising from this arrest. He lost his seat to a little-known Democratic opponent in November, and made a short-lived effort to run again in 1982. That was the end of his political career.

Bauman has had a successful career since then as a tax attorney specializing in offshore-banking issues (and, lately, as a conservative blogger), so he didn’t change his politics much after leaving Congress. He did, however, eventually come out as a gay man, and wrote a 1986 autobiography called “The Gentleman From Maryland: The Conscience of a Gay Conservative.” For many Americans, the Bauman case was their first peek inside the Washington closet, a phenomenon that filmmaker Kirby Dick says has subtly — or not so subtly — deformed American political discourse for the last several decades.

Dick’s new film, “Outrage,” created a momentary news blip after its Tribeca Film Festival premiere, largely based on the circumstantial evidence Dick arrays about a number of possibly closeted politicians, most notably Florida Gov. and presumptive 2012 presidential candidate Charlie Crist — who, whatever his sexual orientation may be, looks more like a photographic negative of a human being than a real one — along with former Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, former Louisiana Rep. Jim McCrery, and former New York Mayor Ed Koch. But allegations that those men were leading concealed double lives have circulated for years, as rumors and in print, and “Outrage” is more than just gay-positive gotcha journalism in the mode of blogger Mike Rogers (a prominent voice in the film).

As in his previous film, “This Film Is Not Yet Rated” (about the super-secretive motion-picture ratings board), Dick is trying to launch public debate about a semi-official organ of American hypocrisy. Although the Bauman case is not mentioned in “Outrage,” one of the startling aspects of the film is how little seems to have changed since 1980. Gays and lesbians are more prominent and more widely accepted in American life than ever before, but Craig’s 2007 arrest for propositioning an undercover cop in a Minneapolis-St. Paul airport bathroom echoed Bauman’s arrest to an eerie degree. A beloved conservative leader, faced with public humiliation and the obvious unraveling of his political career, desperately prevaricates, backtracks and apologizes. Despite ample anecdotal evidence about Craig’s private conduct over the years, we’re still waiting for the confessional memoir.

Dick argues, in fact, that the political closet has grown more oppressive in recent years, largely thanks to the Republican Party’s fervent embrace of anti-gay policies, which has sent lesbian and gay conservatives scurrying for cover. He agrees that politicians, whether gay or straight, out or closeted, are entitled to some degree of personal privacy. A politician who is cheating on his wife with a man is not inherently more newsworthy than one cheating with a woman. But a politician who is voting for a rabidly anti-gay agenda while seeking out anonymous gay sex partners in bathrooms, in his view, is a dangerous hypocrite and very likely a disordered personality. In voting against his own natural interests, that politician is directly damaging gays and lesbians, and depriving the entire country of an honest debate about policies and attitudes on homosexuality.

In addition to his film’s unwilling subjects — which also include Rep. David Dreier, R-Calif., a not-quite-closeted figure whose presumed homosexuality has clearly cost him a chance to advance in the Republican hierarchy — Dick has assembled a veritable who’s-who of gay politicians, activists and journalists. These include former Arizona Rep. Jim Kolbe (who came out when threatened with outing in 1996); Rep. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., the only openly lesbian member of Congress; former New Jersey Gov. Jim McGreevey, who resigned after coming out in 2004; Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the first openly gay member of Congress; playwright-activists Larry Kramer and Tony Kushner; blogger Andrew Sullivan and many more.

I met Kirby Dick in the Manhattan offices of Magnolia Pictures, the distributor of “Outrage.” A handsome, composed fellow who looks and sounds much younger than his age (he’s 56), he had the conservative suit and the practiced, sound-bite demeanor of somebody who’s been spending a lot of time in Washington.

Your film got a lot of attention at Tribeca because of the conclusions you seem to draw about politicians like Charlie Crist and Larry Craig. But this movie really isn’t about outing specific people who may not be telling the truth about their sex lives, is it?

No, it absolutely isn’t. When the press covered Mark Foley and Larry Craig, I think the country looked at those as isolated instances. This film looks at the closet as a whole, and how it’s existed in American politics over the last several decades, and how it contorts American politics. I’m interested in it as a system, and the damage that it does, not only in the hypocrisy of certain individuals.

Still, a lot of people are going to ask: Why is it important to out closeted politicians? Why should we care about their private lives?

My film is not about outing closeted politicians. It’s about reporting on the hypocrisy of closeted politicians who vote anti-gay. That’s the bright line that I draw. In many cases, these politicians would normally vote pro-gay. But because of the rumors swirling around them, they run in the opposite direction. Their votes not merely harm millions of gays and lesbians across the country, but they’re also voting against their own beliefs, solely to protect the closet. That’s contorting the American political process.

Lots of married politicians cheat on their wives and it’s not necessarily newsworthy, except in special cases like Bill Clinton or Eliot Spitzer. Is there anything different about cheating on your wife with a man rather than a woman?

There may be no difference. If a politician is married and cheating on his wife with a woman and passing a law against adultery, that’s hypocrisy. If they’re not passing a law against adultery, then I personally don’t think that should be reported on. Some people do, and that’s an open debate. As I’ve said, this is my bright line: If a politician is in the closet, is having sex with someone of the same sex, and is passing laws that hurt gays and lesbians, then that’s hypocrisy.

You also seem to argue that the closet produces a specific kind of hypocrisy, or that it produces a profound personality distortion that makes the hypocrisy more severe.

 It does. People have made this calculation to go into the closet, and oftentimes they have lied to their constituency for decades. They absolutely do not want this light to be shone on them, and they’ll do anything to prevent it, including voting much more strongly against gays and lesbians than they really want to. Most anybody who’s in the closet — if they had their choice, if they could be out, if there were no homophobia in this society — would naturally vote pro-gay and pro-lesbian.

So this leads me to ask whether there are closeted politicians who do not vote against gay issues.

Oh, yes. Absolutely. There’s a number of them, and there may be even more who are so closeted I don’t know about them. But that is not the focus of my film. There is an argument to be made that perhaps one’s sexual orientation should never be a private issue, if you’re a public official. Because you’re voting on issues of sexual orientation. If these politicians who are not hypocrites would come out, they’d be very important role models. Like Jim McGreevey, who at times did act hypocritically, but by coming out made a very important step to address the closet in this country.

One of the most interesting elements of the film comes when you address this question of personal derangement or distortion. When you talk about politicians like Larry Craig or Charlie Crist, who consistently have denied being gay in the face of persistent rumors and at least some evidence — Craig has been married for years, and Crist recently got married — some intriguing questions come up. Assuming that those guys are gay, do you have any theory or any speculation about what goes on in their minds?

Well, I would speculate that there’s a great difference between Charlie Crist and Larry Craig. I imagine, not knowing Crist, that he’s very comfortable with his homosexuality. That may not be true with Larry Craig. Here’s a person who grew up in a very conservative era, in the ’50s, in a conservative state. He realized early on the intensity of the homophobia, and from the time he was aware that he was gay, did everything he could to make sure no one found out.

This is something that’s been with him. I think, from very early in his formative years. I think he made the calculation that the safest way for him to have sex was to have it anonymously. So he travels a lot, he goes to a lot of bathrooms. His face is not particularly recognizable, and no one would imagine that a senator would be having sex in bathrooms. Again, this is speculation, but he may have gotten away with it for a long time. Mike Rogers [of BlogActive.com] spoke to someone who claimed to have had sex with Larry Craig in the Union Station bathroom, only a few blocks from the Capitol. So this seems to be an M.O.

This is really tragic. I mean, if he wants to have sex that way and he’s not disrupting other people’s lives, I’m not going to be judgmental. But I would imagine he wouldn’t want his sex life limited that way. What he’s afraid of is that if he develops a relationship with someone and that ends, then he’s vulnerable to whatever that person might say. That said, all the politicians I report on in my film are victims of homophobia themselves. I think that’s very important to realize.

You show that great scene from Tony Kushner’s “Angels in America,” or rather from the HBO movie version, where we see Al Pacino as Roy Cohn, telling his doctor that he’s not a homosexual. He’s a “heterosexual man who sleeps with men,” because to be a homosexual is to belong to a weak, oppressed and powerless group. Is that your best guess about how someone who’s really deep in the closet might think about it?

Well, it could be that. In the film, Rich Tafel has an interesting comment relating to that. He was executive director of the Log Cabin Republicans, and he was surprised when he started talking to people in the closet who came to him and said, “You think it’s strong to come out and be open. I actually think I’m stronger than you. I’m putting my political ambition first, I’m not putting anything about my personal life first. That’s what it takes to succeed in politics.”

As contorted and twisted as that is, there’s some truth to that. If you’re willing to put your ambition first, in politics or any other field, that may help you succeed. But it damages you psychologically. Living in the closet you have to protect the closet, and it ends up damaging millions of gays and lesbians across the country.

You also argue that the mainstream media has, in effect, enabled the closet for many of these politicians. When people get arrested in sex scandals, whether it’s Larry Craig or Eliot Spitzer, that obviously makes headlines. But otherwise there’s a great reluctance to explore people’s private lives, or maybe to see why they’re relevant.

Yeah, it’s interesting. In general, historically and even now, there’s an “ick factor” in the mainstream media around stories that have to do with gay sexuality. It’s been the gay press who, for decades, has wanted these stories told, and has demanded that the mainstream press cover them. They want parity between gay sexuality and straight sexuality across society, even when it comes to a scandal.

I’m not going to say the press is homophobic. It’s more a veiled form of homophobia. Like much of D.C., the media that covers politics is less homophobic than society as a whole. They’re concerned it’s an issue that will turn off their readership, I’m sure that’s in play. There are concerns about privacy, and I’m sure that’s well meaning. Reporters and documentary filmmakers do have to go into people’s private lives at times, they do sometimes have to do things that will hurt those people. But that’s their job. If they don’t do it, it will be worse for the country.

You make the observation in the film that Washington is a very gay city. I think to anybody who has worked there, gay or straight, that’s really obvious. But it doesn’t get talked about much.

Yeah, and I think it should be. As Kirk Fordham, a former chief of staff to Mark Foley, says in the film, if they kicked out all the gay and lesbian staffers from Congress the way they kick gays and lesbians out of the military, then Congress would grind to a halt. Why not celebrate that?

I wonder if we’ll see more politicians occupy that ambiguous middle ground, like David Dreier, who has repeatedly been outed by journalists but just doesn’t talk about his private life. Or even Jim McCrery, who was outed by the Advocate in 1992 and never directly responded to it. [McCrery remained in Congress until 2009.]

Well, the middle ground was more in play before the Republicans decided to use anti-gay hysteria to further their political ends. We’ve heard stories about politicians going to gay bars in the ’80s and early ’90s. Nobody reported on it and nobody much cared. There was no anger about it. People do all kinds of things in D.C., and other people just let them do it. But once the Republican Party turned on gays and lesbians, gay and lesbian politicians felt they would be targets and had to go into the closet.

When you interview formerly closeted politicians who come out, like Jim Kolbe, it almost seems like they’ve had this born-again experience …

That’s a good way to put it, yeah.

Many of them become really active on gay issues, and it seems like some of them shed their conservative ideology altogether.

Yes and no. Some move to the left on other issues, but I don’t think that Jim Kolbe’s positions, for instance, have shifted that much. He was always a mainstream or middle-of-the-road Republican, not a right-winger. He supported the ERA, for example, and I’m pretty sure he never wanted to vote for the Defense of Marriage Act. What happened after he came out was that he was allowed to vote the way he believed. He describes it as a near-religious experience, the weight of decades of lies was now lifted off his shoulders.

See, this is not a partisan film. This is really focusing on the issue of the closet, and the damage it does to gays and lesbians. I think one of the most important things that could happen to the gay rights struggle would be a prominent out gay Republican running for a major political office. That would do so much to change things.

Could the Republican Party, in its current form, tolerate that?

 Well, I think there’s a huge discussion within the party right now about whether this is hurting them more than it’s helping them. There’s no question that gays and lesbians are a very powerful constituency, a very wealthy constituency, a very focused constituency. I think they’re losing out, purely in terms of political calculation, by not having that constituency more behind them.

“Outrage” opens May 8 in many major cities, with wider national release to follow.

 

 

 

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Larry Craig is still guilty

Sen. Larry Craig's second attempt to clear his name of toilet stall-related crimes has failed.

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It’s not a good day for politicians trying to escape criminal accountability. Probably thankful to Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich today is one Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho), who quietly lost his attempt to withdraw a guilty plea for disorderly conduct committed in a Minneapolis airport men’s room on one fateful summer day.

After his arrest in June of 2007, Craig pled guilty, paid a fine and clearly hoped the whole sordid mess would go away. When the story became public, he insisted that it was all a big misunderstanding, and, “deeply panicked,” he’d been hasty in making the guilty plea.

Well, no dice, said the court. In the second rejection of such an attempt, Hennepin County District Judge Charles Porter called the original plea “accurate, voluntary and intelligent, and… supported by the evidence.”

Much to the chagrin of his fellow Republican senators, Craig backed off a promise to resign after the scandal broke, despite a reprimand from the Ethics Committee. Instead, he chose not to seek reelection, and will be replaced in the next Congress by current Idaho Lieutenant Gov. Jim Risch.

Though he’ll soon be out of the public eye, it was good of Craig to resurface today, if only briefly. By contrast, writes Kathryn Jean Lopez at the Corner, Blagojevich is heartwarming:

This Illinois Senate-seat news is outrageous and shameful. That said, it warms my heart. Finally, a political scandal you can talk to your children about. No room at the Mayflower. No myspace page. No Gay-American announcement. Just good and evil and money and power corrupting.

Yes, if you do your damnedest to sell your constituents’ right to representation to the highest bidder — but don’t touch your zipper — you’re practically a Frank Capra character.

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Gabriel Winant is a graduate student in American history at Yale.

Page 1 of 23 in Roy Ashburn