Gay ex-Scout: I never saw this coming

Three decades after losing his landmark lawsuit, my Scouting buddy ponders a historic day for gay rights

Topics: LGBT, LGBT Rights, Gay Rights, Boy Scouts, Boy Scouts of America, Editor's Picks, ,

Gay ex-Scout: I never saw this coming (Credit: Anthony Berenyi via Shutterstock/Salon/Benjamin Wheelock)

When news broke earlier this week that the Boy Scouts of America was considering a reversal – or at least a half-baked semi-reversal – of its long-standing ban on openly gay members or adult leaders, I knew I had to talk to Tim Curran. Until recently the news director at SiriusXM Satellite Radio’s OutQ channel, Curran is a former Eagle Scout who has covered this issue as a broadcast journalist for years, along with many other LGBT-related topics.

But there was more to it than professional expertise. You see, I’ve known Tim for more than 30 years (I’ll drop the last-name thing now). We were both members of Troop 37 in Berkeley, Calif., spent innumerable hours together camping and hiking and playing cards on summer-camp afternoons, and received our Eagle Scout awards at the same ceremony. Not long after that, when Tim came out and took his boyfriend to the high-school prom, he was barred by the Scouts from becoming an adult leader – and then became the plaintiff in a landmark anti-discrimination lawsuit that went all the way to the California Supreme Court. I testified in an early stage of that lawsuit before a Los Angeles judge hilariously named Sally Disco – although I don’t think my resolute cluelessness about the “morally straight” clause of the Scout Oath was particularly helpful.

Tim lost that case in 1998, and a couple of years later a New Jersey Scout named James Dale lost a similar case by a 5-4 vote in the United States Supreme Court, establishing from then until now the legal principle that the Boy Scouts is a private organization with wide latitude to set its own rules and exclude whomever it wants to. In practice that has meant that openly gay boys and adults are unwelcome (along with professed atheists), and since the days when Tim and I were Scouts the organization has allied itself ever more closely with the “family values” crowd and the Christian right.

Now, in an abrupt if partial reversal, by early February the Scouts may allow local troops to set their own policies about admitting or excluding gays. As Tim pointed out when I reached him on the phone, this is a long way from a real anti-discrimination policy. It’s also a change he never thought he’d live to see.

Tim, did you see this coming?

I did not. Seven months ago, after a two-year secret review, the Boy Scouts said, “No way, nohow, are we ever gonna change this.” By the time my lawsuit concluded in 1998 with a loss, I wasn’t even sure the policy would change in my lifetime. And I’m still skeptical. I’ll believe it when I see it! This looks to me like a trial balloon. They haven’t committed to a policy change. They’re saying they’re thinking about it, they’re considering it, it has to go to a vote of the board, blah blah blah. It smells to me like a trial balloon that will be popped if the pushback is significant. Which it could be.

It looks from the outside like there must be some serious internal division within the organization over this.

I think the fact that this has changed in seven months is a sure sign that there’s tremendous internal strife over it. You don’t have to have an inside line or be a political genius to figure that out! And I think it’s really unclear what the catalyst is, if they’ve really gone in seven months from “No way, nohow” to “We’re thinking about it.” If they’re reconsidering the conclusions of a two-year secret review, it’s clear that something has catalyzed this, and I couldn’t tell you what. Was it politicking within the board? We do know there were at least two members of the board, and probably more, who were fighting for this change. Maybe they were just able to put together a winning coalition. Was it the fact that the Human Rights Campaign recently said they would start to score corporations and deduct points on its Corporate Equality Index for companies who give money to the Boy Scouts?

Was it perhaps the gradual change that we’re seeing in the Mormon Church [a major sponsor of the Boy Scouts] and its posture towards anti-gay activism, where they’re becoming less and less visibly out front — or less and less combative in tone, anyway — on fighting against gay rights? You know, they’re very sensitive to public relations considerations. Let me give you another one: After, I think, 29 straight losses on marriage-equality votes at the state level, on Nov. 6 there were four marriage-equality wins. The handwriting, perhaps, is on the wall. We’re at a tipping point, and the question becomes how far behind, how alienated and separate, how out of touch do you want to be?

Right. But of course on marriage equality we’ve got this weird and unstable Missouri Compromise situation, where gay marriage is completely legal in some states and banned by constitutional amendment in others. The Boy Scouts seem to be creating their own version of that model.

Which is not, by the way, the same thing as permitting gay people in Scouting. Or creating a universal non-discrimination statement. The Boy Scouts of America does not permit individual troops to decide whether they will admit or exclude black people or Jews. That is not permissible. Sexual orientation is not being added to their non-discrimination statement. But if local option had been permitted 30 years ago, I would still be in Troop 37! Well, maybe not to this day. But I would have for a while, certainly. The point is, I would have been permitted to stay. As you well know, our scoutmaster and the troop leadership had a discussion about it, and decided it was OK for me to stay, as far as they were concerned. But they were told the troop would lose its charter.

So we’re heading for a situation, just to go all stereotypical, where troops in Berkeley and Brooklyn can have gay leaders and gay members, and troops in Waco, Texas, will not?

Yeah, that’s exactly what we’re headed for. We’re headed for chaos. We’re headed for national jamborees and regional camporees where there’s all kinds of anxiety and tension around having openly gay leaders in one troop side by side with anti-gay leaders from other troops. On the other hand, having said that, those kinds of fears proved completely illusory in the military. People warned that there would be dissension in the ranks, and it proved to be a non-issue. So it may be that by permitting this — what you’ve called the Missouri Compromise — it ultimately leads to the end of the exclusion of gay people in Scouting. Because you get desensitization, and because it’s a nontenable situation.

Right. Well, “Don’t ask, don’t tell,” as ridiculous a policy as that was, ultimately led to the collapse of the ban on openly gay people in the military.

Right. But, you know, over a 20-year time period!

It’s hard to imagine this taking that long, but who knows. When you talk about this as a trial balloon, I suppose one of the things they’re wondering about is how the evangelical base of Scouting, one might say, will respond to this.

I think that’s exactly the question. There are a lot of anti-gay conservatives in Scouting, and Scouting has somewhat selected for them by having this policy. People who were cool with gay people kept their kids out of Scouting. They’ve created an environment, where — I don’t know if anti-gay conservatives predominate, but there’s certainly a higher percentage of them than there would otherwise be. So now you’re in a situation where some of those people are going to threaten to leave Scouting. Inevitably you’ll get people who will say, “We recognize that our troop can make its own choice about this, but we just think it’s bad policy and we don’t want anything to do with it.” So you will get some threats, and some people will carry out those threats. And the vociferousness with which that debate, if not hysteria, is carried out will determine whether or not the Boy Scouts actually change the policy. I think the timeline is supposed to be within a couple of weeks, but don’t be surprised if they push that back.

From the institution’s point of view, are they afraid of something like what has happened in the Episcopal Church in America, which has essentially split into pro-gay and anti-gay factions?

The thing is that there’s an important difference. For all their protestations that the Boy Scouts is a grass-roots organization — I mean, that’s complete BS, as you know. It’s a top-down, authoritarian organization, and what the national council says goes. In the Episcopal Church, by design, decision-making is decentralized. So people can just choose to leave, take their marbles and start their own organization. There’s a history and a tradition of that. In Scouting, as pro-gay people have found out, you can’t decide to take your marbles and start a pro-gay Scouting organization. They have a monopoly and it’s run from the top. So you can’t imagine a situation in which you have pitched-battle factionalism, like they have in the Episcopal Church and other mainline Protestant religious denominations. It’s just a question of how many defections and departures they’re willing to tolerate. But people who depart don’t have anywhere to go. So there’s a certain consciousness — it’s more like the Catholic Church, right? People may threaten to leave, but if they do they have no home.

Let me veer a bit more personal here. How do you see the moral calculus now for parents who might be interested in Scouting but want to be supportive of inclusion? My son is old enough for Cub Scouts and his twin sister is already a Brownie, because the Girl Scouts have a long-standing non-discrimination policy. I’ve already explained to him that he can’t be a Boy Scout because they have policies we can’t support. The question for our family, and many others in our situation, is whether this is enough of a change, or whether we need to wait for full inclusion and equality.

Well, I’ve never made recommendations for parents, even when it was an anti-gay organization. There’s so much good in Scouting, and you have to measure that good against the cost. If you were willing to be clear with your children about the moral compromises — and not many people are! — I was OK with parents signing their kids up for Scouting. Now, I would say it makes the decision easier. You shop around for a troop that represents your views the same way you shop around for a church or temple in your denomination that most closely represents your views. If you’re a Methodist and the church down the block is too conservative, you look for another one across town.

I mean, let’s see whether this thing actually happens! But if and when it does, then I’m all for people looking for a Boy Scout troop that represents their views on the issue. And again, maybe taking it as a teachable moment, talking to your kids about the organization and the fact that not every troop is open or fair. Other people may have a different view. I’m sure they do. But having been through Scouting, I know the good the organization offers that is unique.

More Related Stories

Featured Slide Shows

  • Share on Twitter
  • Share on Facebook
  • 1 of 11
  • Close
  • Fullscreen
  • Thumbnails

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    Beautiful Darkness by Fabien Vehlmann & Kerascoët
    Kerascoët's lovely, delicate pen-and-watercolor art -- all intricate botanicals, big eyes and flowing hair -- gives this fairy story a deceptively pretty finish. You find out quickly, however, that these are the heartless and heedless fairies of folk legend, not the sentimental sprites beloved by the Victorians and Disney fans. A host of tiny hominid creatures must learn to survive in the forest after fleeing their former home -- a little girl who lies dead in the woods. The main character, Aurora, tries to organize the group into a community, but most of her cohort is too capricious, lazy and selfish to participate for long. There's no real moral to this story, which is refreshing in itself, beyond the perpetual lessons that life is hard and you have to be careful whom you trust. Never has ugly truth been given a prettier face.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    Climate Changed: A Personal Journey Through the Science by Philippe Squarzoni
    Squarzoni is a French cartoonist who makes nonfiction graphic novels about contemporary issues and politics. While finishing up a book about France under Jacques Chirac, he realized that when it came to environmental policy, he didn't know what he was talking about. "Climate Changed" is the result of his efforts to understand what has been happening to the planet, a striking combination of memoir and data that ruminates on a notoriously elusive, difficult and even imponderable subject. Panels of talking heads dispensing information (or Squarzoni discussing the issues with his partner) are juxtaposed with detailed and meticulous yet lyrical scenes from the author's childhood, the countryside where he takes a holiday and a visit to New York. He uses his own unreachable past as a way to grasp the imminent transformation of the Earth. The result is both enlightening and unexpectedly moving.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    Here by Richard McGuire
    A six-page version of this innovative work by a regular contributor to the New Yorker first appeared in RAW magazine 25 years ago. Each two-page spread depicts a single place, sometimes occupied by a corner of a room, over the course of 4 billion years. The oldest image is a blur of pink and purple gases; others depict hazmat-suited explorers from 300 years in the future. Inset images show the changing decor and inhabitants of the house throughout its existence: family photos, quarrels, kids in Halloween costumes, a woman reading a book, a cat walking across the floor. The cumulative effect is serene and ravishing, an intimation of the immensity of time and the wonder embodied in the humblest things.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    Kill My Mother by Jules Feiffer
    The legendary Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist delivers his debut graphic novel at 85, a deliriously over-the-top blend of classic movie noir and melodrama that roams from chiaroscuro Bay City to Hollywood to a USO gig in the Pacific theater of World War II. There's a burnt-out drunk of a private eye, but the story is soon commandeered by a multigenerational collection of ferocious women, including a mysterious chanteuse who never speaks, a radio comedy writer who makes a childhood friend the butt of a hit series and a ruthless dame intent on making her whiny coward of a husband into a star. There are disguises, musical numbers and plenty of gunfights, but the drawing is the main attraction. Nobody convey's bodies in motion more thrillingly than Feiffer, whether they're dancing, running or duking it out. The kid has promise.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    The Motherless Oven by Rob Davis
    This is a weird one, but in the nervy surreal way that word-playful novels like "A Clockwork Orange" or "Ulysses" are weird. The main character, a teenage schoolboy named Scarper Lee, lives in a world where it rains knives and people make their own parents, contraptions that can be anything from a tiny figurine stashable in a pocket to biomorphic boiler-like entities that seem to have escaped from Dr. Seuss' nightmares. Their homes are crammed with gadgets they call gods and instead of TV they watch a hulu-hoop-size wheel of repeating images that changes with the day of the week. They also know their own "death day," and Scarper's is coming up fast. Maybe that's why he runs off with the new girl at school, a real troublemaker, and the obscurely dysfunctional Castro, whose mother is a cageful of talking parakeets. A solid towline of teenage angst holds this manically inventive vision together, and proves that some graphic novels can rival the text-only kind at their own game.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    NOBROW 9: It's Oh So Quiet
    For each issue, the anthology magazine put out by this adventurous U.K.-based publisher of independent graphic design, illustration and comics gives 45 artists a four-color palette and a theme. In the ninth issue, the theme is silence, and the results are magnificent and full of surprises. The comics, each told in images only, range from atmospheric to trippy to jokey to melancholy to epic to creepy. But the two-page illustrations are even more powerful, even if it's not always easy to see how they pertain to the overall concept of silence. Well, except perhaps for the fact that so many of them left me utterly dumbstruck with visual delight.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    Over Easy by Mimi Pond
    When Pond was a broke art student in the 1970s, she took a job at a neighborhood breakfast spot in Oakland, a place with good food, splendid coffee and an endlessly entertaining crew of short-order cooks, waitresses, dishwashers and regular customers. This graphic memoir, influenced by the work of Pond's friend, Alison Bechdel, captures the funky ethos of the time, when hippies, punks and disco aficionados mingled in a Bay Area at the height of its eccentricity. The staff of the Imperial Cafe were forever swapping wisecracks and hopping in and out of each other's beds, which makes them more or less like every restaurant team in history. There's an intoxicating esprit de corps to a well-run everyday joint like the Imperial Cafe, and never has the delight in being part of it been more winningly portrayed.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    The Shadow Hero by Gene Luen Yang and Sonny Liew
    You don't have to be a superhero fan to be utterly charmed by Yang and Liew's revival of a little-known character created in the 1940s by the cartoonist Chu Hing. This version of the Green Turtle, however, is rich in characterization, comedy and luscious period detail from the Chinatown of "San Incendio" (a ringer for San Francisco). Hank, son of a mild-mannered grocer, would like to follow in his father's footsteps, but his restless mother (the book's best character and drawn with masterful nuance by Liew) has other ideas after her thrilling encounter with a superhero. Yang's story effortlessly folds pathos into humor without stooping to either slapstick or cheap "darkness." This is that rare tribute that far surpasses the thing it celebrates.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    Shoplifter by Michael Cho
    Corinna Park, former English major, works, unhappily, in a Toronto advertising agency. When the dissatisfaction of the past five years begins to oppress her, she lets off steam by pilfering magazines from a local convenience store. Cho's moody character study is as much about city life as it is about Corinna. He depicts her falling asleep in front of the TV in her condo, brooding on the subway, roaming the crowded streets after a budding romance goes awry. Like a great short story, this is a simple tale of a young woman figuring out how to get her life back, but if feels as if it contains so much of contemporary existence -- its comforts, its loneliness, its self-deceptions -- suspended in wintery amber.

    Ten spectacular graphic novels from 2014

    Through the Woods by Emily Carroll
    This collection of archetypal horror, fairy and ghost stories, all about young girls, comes lushly decked in Carroll's inky black, snowy white and blood-scarlet art. A young bride hears her predecessor's bones singing from under the floorboards, two friends make the mistake of pretending to summon the spirits of the dead, a family of orphaned siblings disappears one by one into the winter nights. Carroll's color-saturated images can be jagged, ornate and gruesome, but she also knows how to chill with absence, shadows and a single staring eye. Literary readers who cherish the work of Kelly Link or the late Angela Carter's collection, "The Bloody Chamber," will adore the violent beauty on these pages.

  • Recent Slide Shows



Comment Preview

Your name will appear as username ( settings | log out )

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href=""> <b> <em> <strong> <i> <blockquote>