So Galileo wasn't really arrested because of his science. It was because he was a lousy diplomat?
Yeah, he was a terrible diplomat, thumbing his nose at the most powerful person who critiqued him. Also, Galileo was not as badly treated as many people suggest. When he was summoned down to Rome by the Inquisition, he lived in the Tuscan palace. And then when he was asked to move into the Vatican, to the palace of the Inquisition, one of the officials in the Inquisition vacated his three-room apartment so that the distinguished guest, Galileo, could have a nice apartment. And they allowed him to have his meals catered by the chef at the Tuscan embassy. Ultimately, he was under house arrest in his villa outside of Florence.
Is the whole notion, then, that Galileo faced possible execution because of his scientific statements just baloney?
[It was] highly unlikely [he faced execution]. In fact, I don't know of a single pioneer in science who lost his life for his scientific beliefs.
Well, what about the 16th century philosopher and cosmologist Giordano Bruno? I've always heard that he was burned at the stake because of his Copernican view of the universe.
No, it was for his theological heresies, not for his Copernicanism. He happened to be a Copernican, but that's not what got him into trouble. No, the bitterest arguments have taken place within religious groups. If you want to hear bitter argument, listen to some old age fundamentalists argue with young earth creationists. Then you're talking about warfare.
If science and religion aren't really historical enemies, why do so many people think they are?
Because it serves the needs of two different groups. Scientists who are beleaguered today by creationists and by opponents of stem cell research like to dismiss religion as something that has been an eternal impediment to the progress of science. And the conservatives -- whether they're creationists or intelligent design theorists -- probably represent a majority in our society. But they also love to present themselves as martyrs. They're being oppressed by the secularists of the world. The secularists may only amount to about 10 percent of American society, but of course they do control many of the papers and the radio stations and TV stations of the country. So clearly these ideas serve some intellectual need of the parties involved, or they wouldn't persist, especially in the face of so much historical evidence to the contrary.
My sense is that you don't much like the stridency of certain atheists. The most obvious examples would be Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett.
Right. I don't know what the figures are right now, but I bet half of the scientists in America believe in some type of God. So I think Dawkins and Dennett are in a minority of evolutionists in saying that evolution is atheistic. I also think it does a terrible disservice to public policy in the United States.
So even if they believe that, you're saying, politically, it's a real mistake for them to link atheism to evolution?
Yes. Because in the United States, our public schools are supposed to be religiously neutral. If evolution is in fact inherently atheistic, we probably shouldn't be teaching it in the schools. And that makes it very difficult when you have some prominent people like Dawkins, who's a well-credentialed biologist, saying, "It really is atheistic." He could undercut -- not because he wants to -- but he could undercut the ability of American schools to teach evolution.
Dawkins himself acknowledges that, politically, this is not the smartest thing to do. But he says there is a higher principle at stake, and it's really the war between supernaturalism and naturalism. He says that's the real fight he's waging.
But you have to be careful. In the United States, the 90 percent who are theists far outnumber the 10 percent who are nontheists. So you want to remember that you are a minority, and that you need to get along, so some compromise might be in order. I'm not suggesting that he should compromise his own views. But by arguing not only that the implications of evolution for him are atheistic but that evolution is inherently atheistic is a risky thing.
So far, the rejection of evolution seems to be a predominantly Christian movement. Do we see much of this in other religious traditions?
We are now. It was mostly a Christian tradition, although to a certain extent, the reason we didn't see this in other religious cultures is because it was so dormant. Most modern Muslims weren't accepting evolution, but they weren't coming out in opposition to it. Most ultra-Orthodox Jews didn't accept evolution, but they didn't see any reason to say anything about scientific evolution. Today -- especially in the last decade or two -- we're seeing anti-evolutionism erupt in these non-Christian cultures. It's very big in the Muslim culture. The center for that is in Turkey, and the leader goes by the pen name Harun Yahya. His work circulates in millions of copies. They're translated into virtually every language [spoken by] Muslims.
Are we going to see this war between evolutionism and creationism continue for years to come?
I probably shouldn't even try to answer that question. Historians generally shouldn't try to be prophets. But it doesn't seem to be declining in any way right now. I think the creation scientists are still extremely strong. Some people say the intelligent design movement has eclipsed the creation scientists. But I think that's judging strength by press coverage. And the press will cover it only when it's exciting, when there's a legislative battle or a court case. I'm shocked by how much publicity the intelligent design movement has gotten in 15 years. They have a very good public relations machinery. So you have a handful of people in Seattle at the Discovery Institute and a few million dollars a year to play with, and they've convinced Time, Newsweek and others that the whole scientific community is divided over intelligent design. It's amazing!
About the writer
Steve Paulson is the executive producer of Wisconsin Public Radio's nationally syndicated program "To the Best of Our Knowledge." He's also one of this year's Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellows in Science & Religion.
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