I don't really think so. I think it's just peer pressure. Being smart isn't cool. Y'know? It like, "Huh-huh, I drink 40s and smoke blunts -- I'm cool." And if you say, "Hey I'm thinking about taking some extra classes," then you're corny.

"Prince Among Thieves" is both cool and smart.

A lot of times I don't realize what I'm making until after I make it. I wrote the story and I made the record, but only looking back on it can I see what I meant. It's almost like psychotherapy. You express all these things, then afterward you go back and break it down.

It's got some very sly satire, like when the character True orders a gun that's "lightweight, yet economical, and'll match with brown Tims."

Ha ha! I'm just playing a joke but brothers be like, "Yo! I kinda feeeeel that, man." I think being cool is just funny, 'cause brothers go way out of their way to fit in. It gets to a point where it's almost like being a clown. It's not even real.

It's just arbitrary. Like Timberlands become the cool shoe one day.

It's not cool. What gains more respect in my eyes is people who can be themselves under any conditions. I mean, yeah, I'll adapt to a situation, but I'm still myself. If I feel a certain way I'll express it, and that's what comes across in my music. I'm not scared to say I'm scared or angry or happy. That's what I thought artistry is supposed to be about.

You cut through the phoniness in rap. For example, Tariq, the protagonist, boasts about an elaborate sexual encounter on the song "Steady Slobbin'." But you pepper the song with little snippets of what actually happened between him and the girl, which contradicts Tariq's story. And it all rhymes.

That's funny, right? I didn't think anybody would really pay attention to that. Breeze [of the group Juggaknots, who plays Tariq] is really talented, really slept on. He's a really smart guy. And he knows all the newest slang -- that's what makes him cool. He's like an intellectual street kid.

"Prince Among Thieves" touches on race issues in, again, a really sly and penetrating way: You have white rapper Everlast portraying a racist cop. It's like the separate-but-equal flip side of gangsta rap.

I thought the grimy voice that he has would be so perfect, almost like a Nick Nolte that rhymes. He knew exactly what I wanted, and as soon as I asked him he started writing the rhyme.

Why didn't you back Chubb Rock, who plays drug dealer Mr. Big, with anything except for Biz Markie's human beatbox?

Because nobody does that anymore. It was like a blast from the past, getting Biz to do the beatbox. What's good about the older rappers is that they're really professional, really courteous. I like that.

Even Kool Keith, who plays weapons dealer Crazy Lou? He has a reputation for being sort of difficult to work with.

Out of everybody on this album, he was one of the most if not the most professional. He was on time, and in some cases early. He was so on-point that when we did "Weapon World," he showed up with gun magazines. He did research for his part. I was really impressed.

You've both been in the game for so long and yet your styles are still evolving.

This album enabled me to try a lot of different styles to fit the mood of the story. It gave me an excuse to experiment. "Prince Among Thieves" is about putting everything I've ever learned on one record. I can score. I can do hip-hop beats. I can do alternative styles. I can do ballads.

What is your greatest strength?

I can make MCs sound really good and I think I can really produce. I'm not the best beat-maker: My beats are OK. What sets me apart is sight-on arranging and getting artists to project as much of themselves as they can. I don't have those records that radio loves and can embrace, but what I do, I do pretty good.

The depth and variety of emotion in your mixes is also unusual. I always think of the way the horns in De La's "Potholes in My Lawn" seemed to be laughing along with Posdnuos' goofy rhyme.

I think it's important for everything to kinda fit. I remember telling Pos a long time ago -- though the rule doesn't fit anymore because people are just doing whatever as far as sound -- that we always had to have the drums match the era that the sample came from. Like, we couldn't have "Planet Rock" drums on "Plug Tunin'," we'd want something with more swing. That's not popular anymore.

You're thinking of the whole.

My way of thinking is really warped. Sometimes I wish I could do some other kind of style, but even if I tried and sat down and said I'm gonna make a commercial song, or a radio hit, I can't do it. It's just not me.
salon.com | April 21, 1999

- - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - -

  Get a printer-friendly version

  E-mail a friend about this article

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Search Salon

- - - - - - - - - - - -