_______________SPANKING: A BLACK MOTHER'S VIEW BY KAREN GRIGSBY BATES AND _______________TO SPANK OR NOT TO SPANK BY ALBERT MOBILIO(10/07/98)
	What is this article doing on Salon? It is tired, redundant and old news. Yes, '50s kids got beaten by their lower-class, middle-class and upper-class parents. Educated people beat their kids as well as uneducated. This author has obviously still not "gotten it": that children deify their parents and rationalize any behavior, no matter how negative, and still say, "Hey, I turned out OK." Well this guy obviously didn't turn out OK and is continuing to perpetuate the same abuse, violence and harm toward his own children that he himself received. Is this worth a pro-spanking article in a magazine of Salon's quality? What is basically wrong with spanking as a means of discipline? For one thing it is not discipline, it is punishment; it doesn't guide and teach, it controls. When one spanks, a physical act fueled by emotion, one spanks first and thinks later. One spanks first and listens later. One denies that the other side, the child, has rights to a safe and trusting relationship with a big and powerful adult. Poor Albert. He still doesn't see that the "bad little boy" he was that "needed" this kind of discipline was created. He was formed and shaped as an infant and toddler and preschooler with these methods. When he acted out in the ways that he had been taught, then he was "bad" and needed some more of the same kind of medicine to keep him in line. Spanking is wrong. Children are not for hitting. Violence against children is wrong. Poor little Albert. -- Peggy Groner I enjoy reading Salon for your courage in openly discussing topics that are often considered to be taboo -- and for your daring treatment of very ordinary subjects, too! Given my own family background I can certainly understand the viewpoints of both pro-spanking authors in today's section of Mothers Who Think. However, I disagree with their conclusions and was disappointed to see that Salon did not give equal space to those of us who oppose spanking. Surely covering both sides of the issue would have been more fair. -- Laura Marple Surely these thought-provoking articles are only the first of a series. How about one on the value of wife-beating? The latest research shows that an occasional loving whack across her mouth actually strengthens a marriage. Maybe an explanation of why domestic violence among [pick a minority] is part of their proud cultural heritage. Or, maybe another one on spanking, further developing Mobilio and Grigsby Bates' ideas, called "What the hell! It's an easily justified way to take out my aggression on helpless children." I look forward to reading more thoughtful and well-researched columns in Salon. -- Rebecca O'Connell Even though I'm not a parent, after several years in retail and then the public library arena, I have to agree, some spanking seems to help. After watching some hapless white woman trying to "reason" with a 2-year-old, I found myself thinking: That child won't listen. She'll keep climbing the shelves/eating the marbles/tearing things up/screaming obscenities. She's been "talked at" so long that she doesn't hear what you're saying, lady, that is, if she even understands half of what you're saying to her. One light swat on the fanny, you'll get her attention. I have encountered situations with other parents where it seems that the child is running things while the adults run around in mortal terror of the child possibly exploding if he doesn't get his way. I have also noticed that lower-income parents seem to have more control over their children in public places than the upper-income parents. Does this tell me something about a little physical reminding of who's boss? Perhaps it's time to reconsider the whole philosophy of spanking. -- Chris Durrill As someone who lives in New York City and travels the subway every day I constantly see the following scenario played out: A kid starts to fuss, cry, etc. The mother, instead of trying to attend to the kid, slaps him. The kid cries harder, and the mother slaps the kid again. Wow, that looks like great parenting to me. Oh, it wasn't on the butt, that's the problem. Oh, if that great mom had just made the kid get out of his stroller and then slapped the butt, that would be a good, effective spanking. I get it. And are you kidding about making such a ridiculous racist overgeneralization that black kids act better than white kids? I am the mother of a 5-year-old. I would never in my whole life dream of looking at my child's behavior in terms of his race. I definitely think he acts better and has more self-esteem than those kids who are being spanked, though. Just because someone survives bad parenting doesn't therefore make it OK. Bill Cosby was spanked and look how great he came out. Well, what about all the others? If someone was molested and turns out to be a successful person does that mean being molested is OK too? I have never read anything so convoluted and absurd in my life. I'll hold my nonspanked 5-year-old's behavior up to your butt-beaten kids' anyday. -- Judy Goldberg In her article, Karen Grigsby Bates writes, "Our very scientific conclusion: We do it, 'they' (meaning white folks) don't -- and the results, judging from the unchecked public tantrums we've seen many young white children employ, seem to speak for themselves." What racist drivel. Can you even imagine printing something along the lines of "'they' (meaning black folks) don't -- and the results, judging from the unchecked drugs, gangs, violence we've seen many black teens employ, seem to speak for themselves." -- Lorna DeAngio "We do it, 'they' (meaning white folks) don't -- and the results, judging from the unchecked public tantrums we've seen many young white children employ, seem to speak for themselves." This cute little racist statement is a very dangerous one indeed! How far does Karen Grigsby Bates want to look at those results -- as far as the prisons filled with black men who were spanked, or at the universities that are devoid of those well-disciplined nonspanked black youth? Does she want to look at standardized test results? IQ test results? How about murder rates? Unmarried mothers? Illegitimate children? Poverty rates? Just where does this supposed black superiority end? I would suggest it probably ends where my questions begin -- and that's probably where Bates would shrug off the "results" and just blame those nonspanking white folks (by the way, I had my ass whooped as a kid)! Maybe those black parents ought to spare the rod and save the community! -- Jeffrey Abelson New York
_______________UNDER THE MICROSCOPE BY ANDREW LEONARD (10/06/98)
	Andrew Leonard says, "Surveys repeatedly show that the longer someone has been online, the less likely that person is to click on an ad." This, of course, should come as no shock whatsoever. There is, of course, the loss of novelty as one cause; new users of the Web tend to wander all over, while more experienced users gravitate to the places that have the stuff they want. But a bigger factor, I believe, is the fact that most online advertising is being placed by a short list of suspects. I might click on the first banner from Microsoft or Amazon.com that I see, but they're going to have to come up with a really compelling message to get me to click on the 1,000th banner. By then, I have already visited the advertiser's site, and if it was of interest, I have probably gone back regularly. At best, the ad banner will reinforce a habit of periodic visits (brand-building), rather than get me to go there right now. And since those repeat visits don't involve clicking on a banner, they don't get recorded as click-throughs, even though the ad may have had some benefit in getting me there. -- Mark J. Dulcey
_______________MY CRABS OR YOURS? BY DAN STERN (10/07/98)
	Your article, "My Crabs or Yours," while having some tongue-in-cheek moments that might pass for humor, is a chilling indictment of today's young adults (and not-so-young adults, and young not-so-adults), including the author. He seems to be worried only about the loss of spontaneity, about the loss of opportunity for orgiastic romps, about the horrible possibility of enforced abstinence. But nowhere does he worry about the possibility of infecting someone else. It is precisely that sort of selfish attitude that allows STDs to spread in the first place. -- Michael Thelen
_______________IOWA HEARTLAND BY JENNIFER NEW (09/30/98)
	I just finished Jennifer New's "Iowa Heartland" and I am compelled to write. I'm an Iowa native and have been living in Nashville, Tenn., for the last 14 years. I must say, I couldn't wait to leave Iowa. Nothing ever happened in my little town. But Nashville, ah, Nashville, where street sweepers became stars overnight: Things happened there! And, like New, I've traveled the U.S. extensively and had the same reaction from people when I tell them I'm from Iowa. Inevitably, they ask what town it's near, as though they truly had some idea of identification. However, more than once since I've been in Nashville, when I said "Iowa," people confused it with "Ireland" and want to know what I think of America. Or maybe they did hear me correctly, still believing it was a foreign country. Being a redhead and without a Southern twang may have led people to believe that, in fact, I could be from Ireland, but I have to wonder, What did these people learn in geography class? But the real reason I'm writing is that I find it curious that several people from Iowa I've talked with recently, as well as myself, are compelled to return. For the last three years, I've longed to see open sky, miles of corn and snow drifting over five feet. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is very pretty, with what seems like one constant season year round. But when Memphis, four hours to the west, shows snow in the forecast and Nashville closes it schools, I long for home. -- Tonja Corbin SALON | Oct. 12, 1998

R E C E N T L Y+| MEANWHILE, BACK ON CAPITOL HILL ... BY MARK HERTSGAARD

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