Salon Money | God rest ye merry, shoppers

T A B L E__T A L K
Why is a house considered a good investment? Discuss the risks of the real estate market in the Business and Personal Finance area of Table Talk

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Visit BarnesandNoble.com for more books by Bill McKibben
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R E C E N T L Y

Exxon-Mobil: Bigger than Monica?
By Heather Chaplin
While the media and Congress blather about the Clinton sex scandal, these former competitors just created the biggest corporation in the world
(12/04/98)
The last hurrah for West Coast finance
By Kevin Kelleher
The departure of the last of the titans from San Francisco's biggest investment bank was marked by a disastrous frat party that time forgot
(11/25/98)
My guilty secret
By Heather Chaplin
Some people buy porn; I like to buy make-up -- in private
(11/20/98)
Halloween's hollow spree
By Heather Chaplin
How the season of candy-eating kiddies has become monstrously lucrative
(11/06/98)
The greatest gambling hall on earth
By Heather Chaplin
A view of the floor of the New York Stock Exchange
(10/23/98)
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GOD REST YE MERRY, SHOPPERS | PAGE 1, 2
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In your book, you discuss the secularization of Christmas, a shift to fulfilling individual needs and desires, which is the opposite of the spiritual focus on putting the needs of others before your own. But doesn't it take the fun out of Christmas to deny people the opportunity to indulge?
I suppose one way to answer that question is to ask whether you enjoy anybody else's birthday or only your own? And if you're the sort of person who only enjoys your own birthday, then you might not enjoy a Christmas that wasn't utterly centered around providing you with stuff. Although I think just in the most selfish terms it's a lot more fun to do stuff at Christmas time instead of get stuff. You can have a lot of fun and that's what we emphasize. For instance, be outdoors on Christmas morning. We go out and spread birdseed, bread crumbs out in the park. That's a Franciscan tradition. And invite all sorts of friends over for a huge Christmas breakfast. When it comes time for Christmas breakfast, make sure everybody there is responsible for one dish and busy cooking.
If you limit how many presents you give, the benefits to the environment are self-evident -- using less paper and less plastic. But how does a more modest Christmas benefit poor people?
Of course the hope is that one would take some of the money that one didn't spend on Christmas and give it to somebody who actually needed it. What we do through our church, for instance, is that Sunday school kids will draw beautiful Christmas cards and people make donations to what we call the heifer project, which sends animals to Honduras or Nicaragua. And then the Sunday school kids give you cards to send to your friends, saying, instead of a present this year, there's a water buffalo going to Bangladesh on your behalf.
You tell the story of the beginning of the Santa Claus tradition, in New York in the early 1800s, and you say that was the beginning of Christmas consumerism and also the shift to a more domestic holiday. How did those two things merge?
The original idea was to try to make it a more private celebration instead of a public one, which had a certain amount of merit. So, in some ways, did the shift to a consumer Christmas. It made real sense once upon a time, in a country where people didn't have much stuff, to get stuff at Christmas. We've been reading our daughter the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, where they get brown sugar or a new doll for Christmas. And it's incredibly exciting and wonderful. But most people now have more than enough stuff. Their need for stuff is small and big piles of stuff are not particularly exciting. What is exciting is time to spend with other people. Time to spend in silence, too. Time to have reflection.
How do you deal with kids who really want a Sega system or really want a My Twinn doll?
You have to figure out your own kids and what they're up to. There's no sense in depriving kids. It's pretty hard to swim against some of these tides. But a lot of kids too are willing to think about the holiday in new ways. If you can provide them instead with all sorts of fun, kids are in many cases just as desperate for time with their folks or their families or their friends as adults are. You know, those kinds of presents can be really meaningful. "Let's go do something together." Kids really enjoy any kind of community service, being someplace they're needed and helpful, where people are eager to see them.
You've found that kids enjoy going to a soup kitchen?
Very much.
A lot of adults might think that's sort of a scary situation for a kid.
Well, you don't want to take your 4-year-old. I think it's scarier to live in a world with those kind of problems where no one ever does anything about them. To kids that's what's really odd and scary.
In your book you talk about the medieval traditions of the lords and the serfs and the wassailing. There was a real class element to Christmas in those days. Does there still seem to be?
I don't think so. I think that the only difference is that some people can afford to have the kind of Christmas that custom calls for and some people can't afford it and have to go into real debt. The point that we've tried to make as the reason to do this is that Christmas is just not fun right now. People have come to dread the approach of Christmas as much as they anticipate it. And that's too bad.
There used to be some pretty bawdy traditions at Christmas, which is why the Puritans were against it. Do you think those are still reflected in the way we celebrate?
I think the only hint of that old tradition that remains is the office Christmas party, which can be somewhat debauched and probably more fun, Christmas grew out of the pagan need to cheer people up at the darkest time of the year. And it was a blowout. You drank too much, you did things you wouldn't do otherwise. At various periods, people would dress up in women's clothing if they were men, or vice versa, that kind of stuff. And I think at the time, it was quite necessary, in a world of rigid class structures, where poor people had very little chance to blow off steam at all. It probably was really useful. And that might still be true of the American office today. If the American office is the sort of last remnant of feudal life in our country, then it's not surprising that it's also the last remnant of feudal Christmases.
SALON | Dec. 11, 1998




T A B L E__T A L K Why is a house considered a good investment? Discuss the risks of the real estate market in the Business and Personal Finance area of Table Talk ___________________ Visit BarnesandNoble.com for more books by Bill McKibben ___________________ R E C E N T L Y Exxon-Mobil: Bigger than Monica? By Heather Chaplin While the media and Congress blather about the Clinton sex scandal, these former competitors just created the biggest corporation in the world (12/04/98) The last hurrah for West Coast finance By Kevin Kelleher The departure of the last of the titans from San Francisco's biggest investment bank was marked by a disastrous frat party that time forgot (11/25/98) My guilty secret By Heather Chaplin Some people buy porn; I like to buy make-up -- in private (11/20/98) Halloween's hollow spree By Heather Chaplin How the season of candy-eating kiddies has become monstrously lucrative (11/06/98) The greatest gambling hall on earth By Heather Chaplin A view of the floor of the New York Stock Exchange (10/23/98) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Browse the Money archives S A L O N E M P O R I U M FREE! 12-ounce bag of Salon Blend with a purchase of $30 or more. While supplies last.		GOD REST YE MERRY, SHOPPERS \| PAGE 1, 2 - - - - - - - - - - In your book, you discuss the secularization of Christmas, a shift to fulfilling individual needs and desires, which is the opposite of the spiritual focus on putting the needs of others before your own. But doesn't it take the fun out of Christmas to deny people the opportunity to indulge? I suppose one way to answer that question is to ask whether you enjoy anybody else's birthday or only your own? And if you're the sort of person who only enjoys your own birthday, then you might not enjoy a Christmas that wasn't utterly centered around providing you with stuff. Although I think just in the most selfish terms it's a lot more fun to do stuff at Christmas time instead of get stuff. You can have a lot of fun and that's what we emphasize. For instance, be outdoors on Christmas morning. We go out and spread birdseed, bread crumbs out in the park. That's a Franciscan tradition. And invite all sorts of friends over for a huge Christmas breakfast. When it comes time for Christmas breakfast, make sure everybody there is responsible for one dish and busy cooking. If you limit how many presents you give, the benefits to the environment are self-evident -- using less paper and less plastic. But how does a more modest Christmas benefit poor people? Of course the hope is that one would take some of the money that one didn't spend on Christmas and give it to somebody who actually needed it. What we do through our church, for instance, is that Sunday school kids will draw beautiful Christmas cards and people make donations to what we call the heifer project, which sends animals to Honduras or Nicaragua. And then the Sunday school kids give you cards to send to your friends, saying, instead of a present this year, there's a water buffalo going to Bangladesh on your behalf. You tell the story of the beginning of the Santa Claus tradition, in New York in the early 1800s, and you say that was the beginning of Christmas consumerism and also the shift to a more domestic holiday. How did those two things merge? The original idea was to try to make it a more private celebration instead of a public one, which had a certain amount of merit. So, in some ways, did the shift to a consumer Christmas. It made real sense once upon a time, in a country where people didn't have much stuff, to get stuff at Christmas. We've been reading our daughter the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, where they get brown sugar or a new doll for Christmas. And it's incredibly exciting and wonderful. But most people now have more than enough stuff. Their need for stuff is small and big piles of stuff are not particularly exciting. What is exciting is time to spend with other people. Time to spend in silence, too. Time to have reflection. How do you deal with kids who really want a Sega system or really want a My Twinn doll? You have to figure out your own kids and what they're up to. There's no sense in depriving kids. It's pretty hard to swim against some of these tides. But a lot of kids too are willing to think about the holiday in new ways. If you can provide them instead with all sorts of fun, kids are in many cases just as desperate for time with their folks or their families or their friends as adults are. You know, those kinds of presents can be really meaningful. "Let's go do something together." Kids really enjoy any kind of community service, being someplace they're needed and helpful, where people are eager to see them. You've found that kids enjoy going to a soup kitchen? Very much. A lot of adults might think that's sort of a scary situation for a kid. Well, you don't want to take your 4-year-old. I think it's scarier to live in a world with those kind of problems where no one ever does anything about them. To kids that's what's really odd and scary. In your book you talk about the medieval traditions of the lords and the serfs and the wassailing. There was a real class element to Christmas in those days. Does there still seem to be? I don't think so. I think that the only difference is that some people can afford to have the kind of Christmas that custom calls for and some people can't afford it and have to go into real debt. The point that we've tried to make as the reason to do this is that Christmas is just not fun right now. People have come to dread the approach of Christmas as much as they anticipate it. And that's too bad. There used to be some pretty bawdy traditions at Christmas, which is why the Puritans were against it. Do you think those are still reflected in the way we celebrate? I think the only hint of that old tradition that remains is the office Christmas party, which can be somewhat debauched and probably more fun, Christmas grew out of the pagan need to cheer people up at the darkest time of the year. And it was a blowout. You drank too much, you did things you wouldn't do otherwise. At various periods, people would dress up in women's clothing if they were men, or vice versa, that kind of stuff. And I think at the time, it was quite necessary, in a world of rigid class structures, where poor people had very little chance to blow off steam at all. It probably was really useful. And that might still be true of the American office today. If the American office is the sort of last remnant of feudal life in our country, then it's not surprising that it's also the last remnant of feudal Christmases. SALON \| Dec. 11, 1998