Tough titties

I want to delve into the tricky relationship between sex and feminism. You write a chapter called "Feminists Do It Better (and Other Sex Tips)." Can you talk about some of the conflicts surrounding so-called sex-positive feminism and its detractors?

There are conflicts [within feminism about how to talk about sex] because we're still all trying to process it, and to do so through a feminist lens. I'm still trying to process it. All I know is that the way [critics are] talking about it does not seem helpful to me; it's more about blaming young women and finger-wagging than it is about talking to them or listening to them and taking them seriously. Young women have enough people calling them stupid whores without feminists doing it too.

Do you think critics like Maureen Dowd or Ariel Levy, who have argued that an embrace of sex positivity has led young women to further objectify themselves through stripper-sex-worker-Girls-Gone-Wild excess, all in the name of purported sexual empowerment, are calling women stupid whores?

I don't think that's what they mean to say, but I think that's the message that gets across. If you tell someone that they're buying into sexism if they flash their boobs at Mardi Gras, you're telling them they're stupid and that people are making fun of them and that they're making bad decisions. That means they're getting it from all sides.

But do you think they are making a bad decision if they flash their boobs at Mardi Gras?

It would depend on the person. But for critics, there's no distinction being made between thoughtless or drunken actions and young women who are politically minded and know what they're doing and are doing it for their own reasons. Those two get conflated a lot in this conversation when it comes to the [dismissive] critique, "Young women think stripping is empowering." A lot of third-wave feminist theory on [sex work] is saying, "Let's not paint women as victims. Let's give them some agency and some respect."

Does that mean that we should not be making any critical judgments about women at all?

It's not that I don't think we should be critical of women's decisions; I just doubt the effectiveness of finger-wagging at young women if our goal is to reach out to them and get them interested in feminism, politics and questioning social norms.

OK, but back to the boob-flashing girls: Do you think it's OK even if she's politically aware, but she's still behaving as someone who's gotten the idea that sexuality means being an exposed object?

Doing things without thinking about them is a bad idea for anyone. And I know where they're getting these ideas from, but how can I make a blanket judgment about all young women who do something? I also don't know that this boob-flashing thing is as pervasive as everyone thinks it is. This whole "Girls Gone Wild" conversation feeds into a bizarre Paris Hilton idea that a generation of young women dance on tables. And I don't know them, I don't meet them. How come we're not talking about all the women out there doing political work, or regular work?

Do you think that women are being hit with more anti-sex propaganda now than they were 20 years ago?

I think there are more messages out there, but the message is essentially the same: You are not equipped to make decisions about your sexuality. Whether it's teaching abstinence-only or a guy telling you to do something sexual or the media telling you you have to do X, Y and Z to be sexy, at the end of the day it's all saying the same thing: It's not up to you, or if it is up to you, it's wrong. Whatever decision you make is a bad one. The general idea is that women are children. Consent laws are a great example. Not that I'm against consent laws overall, but the idea that a 15-year-old girl doesn't know who she wants to have sex with I find paternalistic. If she's married, it's OK; if she's unmarried, she's a rape victim. In terms of reproductive rights, the idea that anyone else can say, "You can't have an abortion, you can't get emergency contraception, I know what's best for you," is so disgusting. I don't see what's wrong with trusting women with their own bodies. The fear is if they trust us with our own bodies we're going to go be whores and kill babies; we need help making decisions from our husbands or our parents or the state.

Can you explain the concept of a "rape schedule"?

I first heard about it in my women's studies classes. It's the idea that every woman in one way or another lives on a rape schedule. Every action you take is built on an awareness that you could be attacked: from walking with your keys in your hand, to locking your car doors at an intersection, to deciding to go home a half-hour earlier. There is no public space for women; the whole world is a prison where you have to be constantly aware at all times that you're a potential victim. What's more terrifying is that it's not necessarily preventative. Most rapes are committed by people you know and trust and let your guard down with.

You write about your frustration with critics who say rape and murder victims like Imette St. Guillen should not have been out so late alone at a bar, but I presume that you also want to teach women how to be safer.

All people should be taught to be safe and make smart decisions. But when you say, "Of course she was raped and murdered," because she was transgressing by being in a bar having a drink ... [Fellow feminist blogger] Shakespeare's Sister did an amazing post on this pointing out that women aren't raped because they're drunk or dress a certain way, women are raped because they're in the presence of a rapist.

I agree, but I also think that given the imperfect realities, shouldn't we still be telling women to watch out for themselves?

But to watch out for what? To watch out for everyone? I was a rape counselor for a long time and [I think that] telling women you have to be hypervigilant for the rest of your life so that someone doesn't assault you is a disturbing message.

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