Salon | Newsreal: Still getting away with murder

T A B L E+T A L K
The widening income disparity: Is anyone paying attention? Join the discussion in the Money area of Table Talk

D A I L Y+Q U O T E
Spoken like a true redneck

R E C E N T L Y
Still getting away with murder
By Vivienne Walt
The killing fields of Rwanda are in full swing once more, and there doesn't seem to be much the international community can do about it
(03/20/98)
Hillary was right
By Andrew Ross
There is a right-wing conspiracy to bring down the president
(03/19/98)
Slick Willey
By Bruce Shapiro
Before you cry too many tears for Kathleen Willey, consider the unfortunate brother and sister she fleeced
(03/18/98)
The ties that bind
By Murray Waas and Jonathan Broder
The lawyer who contributed $50,000 to Paula Jones' legal fund also served as counsel for Richard Mellon Scaife's anti-Clinton Arkansas Project
(03/18/98)
Salon exclusive: the road to Hale
By Jonathan Broder and Murray Waas
Key Whitewater witness David Hale received secret cash payments from anti-Clinton billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife
(03/17/98)
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STILL GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER | PAGE 2 OF 2
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Could we see a repeat of the genocide in Rwanda?
From news reports, it seems that the genocide is in fact ongoing. The reports are very alarming.
How has your investigation worked so far?
We would fly survivors in from Arusha, Tanzania, who told their story to the court. They'd describe how the violence escalated, how the government told them to seek refuge in churches and schools, but they were surrounded by militia, denied food and water. Finally, after days, they were macheted.
The testimony must have been extraordinarily grim.
One survivor, Thomas, was a farmer. He went to a stadium to seek shelter, promising to return to get his young wife and new baby. But he couldn't leave. Shooting started, with 10,000 people crammed in the stadium. Only a few survived. He was blinded. He was starving, his face was destroyed by the grenades. He went back to find his whole family had been killed.
What became of him?
He's now blind, and has had to flee. There's a lot of retribution against people who came forward to tell their stories about what happened. But they came to us sad, dejected people, and left with their heads held high. That's where the power of international justice lies.
And yet, not one person has been convicted for the 1994 massacres. Why has there been so little redress?
In fairness, trials of this magnitude take a long time. The international tribunal itself took a year to become operational after it was created in November 1994. Add to that the complicated factor of witnesses living in remote, dangerous areas. This is a new exercise for the United Nations. There's a learning curve, which has unfortunately caused delays.
What is being done to protect potential witnesses to the massacres?
I'm not aware of what kind of monitoring is done with respect to survivor witnesses. In my set of prosecutions, there's little or no international monitoring. I'm very, very concerned for their well-being and safety.
How could a Texas judge let a Rwanda war crimes suspect walk away from U.N. prosecutors?
Extraditions are done by treaty between nations. Because the International Criminal Tribunal in Rwanda isn't a nation, there can't be a treaty with it. Although Congress, for the first time in U.S. history, enacted legislation allowing for extradition to the tribunals, the pastor's arrest was the first time it's been tested in an American court. The federal government has appealed the decision. As a federal prosecutor, I have every confidence that the right thing will be done.
What is he charged with?
He's charged with having organized a massacre of Tutsi civilians in an area which included a church, school and hospital. Thousands of people perished.
You and other prosecutors believe that a permanent international criminal court could make all the difference in these situations. Why?
By holding people accountable; so that people will know they won't be able to act with impunity.
Do you honestly think the Rwandans would have responded to that kind of deterrent?
The fact that they could literally get away with murder was a very important aspect in the massacres. In some parts, those who were orchestrating the genocide made deliberate efforts to get international people out of the area before they began the killings. They were very much aware that if the world were made aware they'd be made to answer for those things. They wouldn't have done it.
SALON | March 20, 1998
Vivienne Walt is a contributing editor to U.S. News & World Report, based in Los Angeles, and a frequent contributor to Salon.

T A B L E+T A L K The widening income disparity: Is anyone paying attention? Join the discussion in the Money area of Table Talk D A I L Y+Q U O T E Spoken like a true redneck R E C E N T L Y Still getting away with murder By Vivienne Walt The killing fields of Rwanda are in full swing once more, and there doesn't seem to be much the international community can do about it (03/20/98) Hillary was right By Andrew Ross There is a right-wing conspiracy to bring down the president (03/19/98) Slick Willey By Bruce Shapiro Before you cry too many tears for Kathleen Willey, consider the unfortunate brother and sister she fleeced (03/18/98) The ties that bind By Murray Waas and Jonathan Broder The lawyer who contributed $50,000 to Paula Jones' legal fund also served as counsel for Richard Mellon Scaife's anti-Clinton Arkansas Project (03/18/98) Salon exclusive: the road to Hale By Jonathan Broder and Murray Waas Key Whitewater witness David Hale received secret cash payments from anti-Clinton billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife (03/17/98) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Browse the Newsreal Archives - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
		STILL GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER \| PAGE 2 OF 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Could we see a repeat of the genocide in Rwanda? From news reports, it seems that the genocide is in fact ongoing. The reports are very alarming. How has your investigation worked so far? We would fly survivors in from Arusha, Tanzania, who told their story to the court. They'd describe how the violence escalated, how the government told them to seek refuge in churches and schools, but they were surrounded by militia, denied food and water. Finally, after days, they were macheted. The testimony must have been extraordinarily grim. One survivor, Thomas, was a farmer. He went to a stadium to seek shelter, promising to return to get his young wife and new baby. But he couldn't leave. Shooting started, with 10,000 people crammed in the stadium. Only a few survived. He was blinded. He was starving, his face was destroyed by the grenades. He went back to find his whole family had been killed. What became of him? He's now blind, and has had to flee. There's a lot of retribution against people who came forward to tell their stories about what happened. But they came to us sad, dejected people, and left with their heads held high. That's where the power of international justice lies. And yet, not one person has been convicted for the 1994 massacres. Why has there been so little redress? In fairness, trials of this magnitude take a long time. The international tribunal itself took a year to become operational after it was created in November 1994. Add to that the complicated factor of witnesses living in remote, dangerous areas. This is a new exercise for the United Nations. There's a learning curve, which has unfortunately caused delays. What is being done to protect potential witnesses to the massacres? I'm not aware of what kind of monitoring is done with respect to survivor witnesses. In my set of prosecutions, there's little or no international monitoring. I'm very, very concerned for their well-being and safety. How could a Texas judge let a Rwanda war crimes suspect walk away from U.N. prosecutors? Extraditions are done by treaty between nations. Because the International Criminal Tribunal in Rwanda isn't a nation, there can't be a treaty with it. Although Congress, for the first time in U.S. history, enacted legislation allowing for extradition to the tribunals, the pastor's arrest was the first time it's been tested in an American court. The federal government has appealed the decision. As a federal prosecutor, I have every confidence that the right thing will be done. What is he charged with? He's charged with having organized a massacre of Tutsi civilians in an area which included a church, school and hospital. Thousands of people perished. You and other prosecutors believe that a permanent international criminal court could make all the difference in these situations. Why? By holding people accountable; so that people will know they won't be able to act with impunity. Do you honestly think the Rwandans would have responded to that kind of deterrent? The fact that they could literally get away with murder was a very important aspect in the massacres. In some parts, those who were orchestrating the genocide made deliberate efforts to get international people out of the area before they began the killings. They were very much aware that if the world were made aware they'd be made to answer for those things. They wouldn't have done it. SALON \| March 20, 1998 Vivienne Walt is a contributing editor to U.S. News & World Report, based in Los Angeles, and a frequent contributor to Salon.