You're not happy with the way Tony Perkins talks about you, but one of the most discussed things about you and your book has been your claim that the Bush team ridiculed Christian conservative leaders. You told CBS, for example, that "people in the White House political affairs office referred to Pat Robertson as 'insane'" and "Jerry Falwell as 'ridiculous.'" Is there any validity to the administration's criticisms of the evangelical leaders they were dealing with?
(Laughs.) Wow. Um, that's a good question.
You know, I go back to something that Chuck Colson wrote after he left the White House. Colson tells the story about his own experience working for Nixon, and he says in the early 1970s, working under Nixon, he was in charge of, basically, seducing these Christian leaders. He closes the story saying, "On the whole, of all the groups I dealt with, I found the religious leaders the most naive about politics. Maybe that is because so many came from sheltered backgrounds, or perhaps it is a mistaken perception of the demands of Christian charity ... Or, most worrisome of all, they may simply like to be around power.
I think that's the best answer to your question.
So you think they like the power too much, is that what you mean?
I think White House power is kind of like Tolkien's ring of power. When you put it on, it feels good and dazzles. After a while it becomes imminently and remarkably distorting. I think everyone is subject to the negative influence of that power, and that's true of anybody. It's true of me, it's true of anyone that's worked there, it's true of anybody in politics after a while.
Now, you took "60 Minutes" to an evangelical conference and were pointing out how no one there was talking about the poor. Were the faith-based anti-poverty programs the reason you got involved in politics?
Yeah, that's the reason I went to the White House, that's what I care most about, these anti-poverty compassion programs.
What are your views on the wedge issues, like abortion and gay marriage, that the administration tries to use to appeal to conservative Christian voters?
I'm taking a fast from politics. I'm not doing politics now. What I want to focus on is not political issues, what I want to focus on is, personally, in my life, caring for the poor and working with other people, and so I don't want to say what my views are on one particular thing or another particular thing. It becomes, ultimately, spiritually divisive, and that's not what Jesus is about. I don't think that Jesus was particularly passionate about any particular political agenda, and I don't want to be either.
Are you at all concerned that your politics and your motivation will be called into question by the White House in response to this book?
Many things about me will be called into question by the White House because of this book. I don't suffer from any false notions about that. I know the lines of attack, they've already sort of -- I've heard some of them, some of them are obvious. And I know what they'll try and do. They're doing what they feel like they need to do, and perhaps if I were them, in the same position, I might do the same thing. But that's part of what I am talking about; that's not a really good way to be, that's not a good way to live.
One of the lines of attack that I've seen used against you is that you're naive, that you didn't understand the realities of working in the White House. What do you think of that accusation?
I'm an optimist. I hope. I believe in the possibility of change. I think if you don't have those things, you should get your butt out of anything you're involved in. But I also -- I've worked for the CIA, I've worked in politics for more than a few years, I've had to deal with my own health issues, my own mortality. You can't go through those things, you can't work those places, and be some starry-eyed, naive naif. Do I believe in promises? Yeah, absolutely. But this idea that I'm some starry-eyed naif is just silly.
About the writer
Alex Koppelman is a staff writer for Salon.
Story finder (3 ways to search Salon)
Salon Directory (browse by topic)