Dodd is my copilot

In an interview, Chris Dodd questions Hillary's electability, and talks about battling his old friend Joe Lieberman and defying Bush on Syria.

By Walter Shapiro

Read more: Democratic Party, Politics, News, Walter Shapiro, Iraq War, 2008 election, Chris Dodd, Candidate interviews

July 10, 2007 | MASON CITY, Iowa -- Chris Dodd, the Democratic senator from Connecticut, sat down with Salon for an interview last Thursday evening as his campaign bus headed from Charles City to Mason City, Iowa. The following transcript has been edited slightly for length.

I was just with Joe Biden, and I asked him this same question: Is it possible that politics has just changed, and we're in an era of rock-star politics with two candidates like Obama and Hillary Clinton? Do you sometimes worry that you're running in the wrong year?

It could be, obviously. Who knows? We'll know the answer to the question [after the primaries]. My instinct is that the answer is no. This is not the first time that we have been through this.

[There] can be a false conclusion based on celebrity and crowds that come out of curiosity, out of interest, out of respect, all sorts of reasons. And when people close that proverbial curtain, they take this stuff pretty seriously. And in a state here that has years of experience in dealing with this, [as in] 1980, when Senator Kennedy and Jimmy Carter [ran]. Certainly, Teddy's status might qualify as rock star in those days. [Carter defeated Kennedy by nearly a 2-to-1 margin in the 1980 Iowa caucuses.]

I get the sense that people like this deal here [in Iowa]. They realize that in a caucus state there is a level of commitment that forces your participation in a way that is very different than anything else that occurs. You got to show up for two hours. You've got to be on time. You've got to know what you're doing. And this requires a level of sophistication unlike a primary state.

As this process matures, what someone felt in January, February, March or April is different than what they felt in June, July and August. It will mature into something else in the fall. People will recognize that "I'm in the middle of the business of maybe electing the next president. And maybe 125,000 of us in this small state will certainly winnow out this field and maybe select the nominee." They take this pretty damn seriously.

Let me violate the first rule of political journalism and ask an issues question. In your energy plan, you both propose a carbon tax and suggest that nuclear power has to be part of the equation. Aren't you making two major enemies? How can you overcome the anti-tax crowd and those in the environmental movement who are militantly opposed to nuclear power?

The first I don't know about. The second one is very different in politics today.

The nuclear issue is different among the environmental experts, but I'm not sure that carries over to the people who send the $25 checks to support the organizations.

I don't know how you can give an honest answer to the question, since you can't operate the [electric] grid on windmills. And if you really want to deal with the CO2 issue, I just don't think it's an honest answer. It's transportation and the grid. You got to answer both those questions or you're not going to get away from the stuff.

Politics and leadership are about making a case. The best response I am getting is on this stuff and the national service stuff.

How do you sell a carbon tax?

On the basis that you're paying a tax already. What you're getting for a tax is more expensive than what I'm offering. It's status quo and more of the same. And when I particularly talk to people about how we're spending a lot of money with countries that are probably subsidizing both sides of the conflict in Iraq, I find that all of a sudden, the same guy who says, "I don't like taxes," [says,] "but if what you're talking about makes it possible to stop subsidizing countries that are nothing but enemies of ours, I'm not as hostile to the idea."

I think what people object to about taxes is the feeling that it's falling into a black hole: "I don't see what I'm getting for this." I can deliver something [energy independence] for you that you say that you want all the time. And if we don't do this [a carbon tax], I can't really do it for you. Because that crowd [the oil and traditional energy industries] can always make their product less expensive than mine. And as long as that's the case, we're hooked.

It requires more than a bumper sticker. But what's the point of doing this, unless I make that case. So I'm going to try.

You said today that you didn't really think about running for president before this time. But I heard rumors in 2003 that "Chris is thinking of going." I think there was a glimmer in 1999. So without getting too Jewish with you, Why is this year different from all other years?

Where's Elijah when you need him? There's an empty chair at the table there.

The kids have a lot of do with it. [Dodd's daughter Grace is 5 years old, and Christina is 2.] Part of it is coming to terms with running for president and understanding -- not the difficulty of running, though that's hard enough -- but the assumption that you can do this job. In the Senate, there are a lot of bills and amendments that you try to fool around with. But if you truly believe that this requires a real change in direction, then there's only one office where that counts.

So this was the time to get out there. I am feeling comfortable with who I am. And I've reached a level of maturity and a comfort level with where I stand and what I believe in. And I am convinced that the American public believes that experience matters [after Sept. 11]. Where in the past, it became almost an albatross. I think it's kind of a unique moment when someone with my background, credentials, comfort level with himself, kind of fits there.

When I made a decision to do this, I was still looking at [potential candidates] Mark Warner, Evan Bayh, Russ Feingold. So I was aware of the mountain to climb. Certainly Hillary -- and Barack was coming along, though it wasn't so obvious earlier on.

Even with all of that, I decided that if you believe in yourself and you believe that you can bring something to this -- on both domestic and foreign policy agenda, and a proven ability to do things and a passion and commitment about it -- why not go out and make a try at it? And see what happens.

I don't believe in taking fool's errands. This is wide open. We have done 35,000 phone calls in this state and almost the same number in New Hampshire -- and 80 percent are threes. [This is political lingo for undecided voters, where "ones" are committed supporters of a candidate, and "twos" are leaning toward one.] Not ones. If I'm not getting them, nobody else is.

I was with Biden in Iowa the other day, and he asked a roomful of voters whether they thought that half of the voters in Iowa had made up their minds. Not a single hand went up.

It's a dangerous question, though. [Dodd starts laughing.] You don't know what they will answer.

There is a certain on-the-high-wire-without-a-net quality to Joe Biden.

One of his lovable qualities, I might add.

Next page: "Standing up for something with conviction and purpose can be more valuable in the process than winning 51 votes"