"I admit that I don't have my shtick down"

In an interview with Salon, Bill Richardson talks about his "evolving" positions, what he owes Bill Clinton, and exactly what "no residual troops in Iraq" means.

By Walter Shapiro

Read more: Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Politics, Bill Richardson, News, Walter Shapiro, Hamas, Iraq War, Darfur, 2008 election, Candidate interviews

Photo: Reuters/John Gress

Gov. Bill Richardson speaks during the American Association for Justice Presidential Forum in Chicago on July 15, 2007.

July 20, 2007 | OSSIPEE, N.H. -- Bill Richardson sat down with Salon for an interview Tuesday afternoon after a campaign appearance here at the Old Ossipee Courthouse.

When you were just talking to Ossipee Democrats, you said that Al Gore was right on climate change, but that you hoped that he wouldn't get in the race? Do you think he's going to get into the race?

I don't believe so. Obviously, if he jumped in, he'd be a major factor. I wouldn't get out. But I always had a very strong relationship with him. My sense is that he's very comfortable and he's making a contribution already the way that he is spreading his message. I don't think he's going to get in, but if he gets in, it will even be a more spirited race. But it won't affect my plans.

Your "job interview" ads currently airing on New Hampshire television stress your background as a congressman, in the Cabinet as energy secretary, as U.N. ambassador and now as a two-term governor of New Mexico. Of all the jobs you talk about, which one fits the talents of Bill Richardson the best?

Governor of New Mexico. Because it's a job that made me decide to run for president for the first time. As a governor, I set the agenda for policy. I didn't do that as secretary of energy, U.N. ambassador and certainly not as a congressman. They're powerful and important positions. But being governor is the ultimate CEO governance job. And it made me realize that after a long career, I had become a good manager, a good governor, someone who has a passion for helping people.

And the ultimate CEO job is the presidency, to make a difference in this country. I like to tell people, "I like power. But to do the right things." And the presidency is the culmination of a career. And I didn't plan it this way. When I was about to get reelected as governor and I knew it would be a strong margin because we had done a good job, I said that I'm going to throw in my hand for the big one because I think I can do it. And I want to be tested -- and I believe this country needs my kind of leadership. I'm good at bringing people together -- countries, constituencies, Republicans, Democrats -- to get things done. And I'm getting into the race.

As a reporter, this is something I'm wrestling with. I saw Hillary and Bill Clinton before a crowd of maybe 1,300 people in Manchester last Friday. Because you're more accessible and unscripted, you say things that might not look good taken out of context. Earlier today at this event, you said in response to a question, "My mind is mush."

At the present time.

At the present time. But not on Inauguration Day January 2009.

I was tired out there.

I understand that. But should reporters like me cut you more of a break for what might be called "verbal missteps" than we would, say, Hillary Clinton who is only available in very controlled settings?

No, you shouldn't give me any breaks. That's who I am. I want you to report what I am. I'm open and accessible and I'm learning. I admit that I don't have my shtick down. I admit that my policies are evolving. I have fundamental principles that I don't change. But I said that I'm open on the subject of single-payer [national health insurance]. I want to be persuaded. Right now, I'm not.

But you should cover what you see, what you get. And I believe that there is a real thirst in the electorate for authenticity. For access. That's my point. I think I'm more effective having 10 meetings of 100 people than other candidates who have 1,000 in one hour. You connect more with those voters. And I think those voters appreciate the access. New Hampshire expects that. Which is why I'm undertaking this intensive grass-roots campaign.

Earlier today, you said in Wolfeboro that President Clinton "wasn't happy with me these days. I'm running against his wife." Is there something else between you and Bill Clinton other than that Hillary is a candidate and you're a candidate?

No. We get along very well. In fact, I talked to him quite a bit before the last governor's race [in 2006]. He's never told me that he's mad at me. But I heard that he is. Because I believe that he is supporting his wife. I'd expect him to do that. But I don't believe that they should have a sense of entitlement for the office. This is bigger than legacies.

And I owe the president a lot. Two great jobs [energy secretary and U.N. ambassador]. But I believe that this should be a spirited contest that defines where this country is going to go. And within the Democratic Party, there is a debate about where our soul is. And I want to be part of that debate.

Now to violate the rules of politics, I'm going to ask you a substantive question. You talk about wanting as president to leave no residual troops in Iraq and then you say, "But we will have to protect the embassy." How many Marines are you envisioning for that job?

First of all, a residual force is not the same as Marines.

Let me rephrase it. You said no residual forces in Iraq. But we will have Marines there to protect the embassy?

Yes, the existing Marine detachment. You have to keep that. Because that's where our personnel is.

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