Barry Wilner

AP source: Brees, Fujita, Smith meet with NFL

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AP source: Brees, Fujita, Smith meet with NFLNew Orleans Saints football quarterback Drew Brees speaks at a news conference for his charity golf tournament Tuesday, April 10, 2012, in Carlsbad, Calif. (AP Photo/Gregory Bull)(Credit: AP)

NEW YORK (AP) — A person with knowledge of the meeting tells The Associated Press that Saints quarterback Drew Brees, former New Orleans linebacker Scott Fujita and players union head DeMaurice Smith are at the NFL offices discussing the team’s bounty program.

Other issues also are being discussed with league executives, the person says Monday, speaking on condition of anonymity because the talks are not being made public.

Brees and Fujita, now with the Browns, are members of the NFL Players Association’s executive committee. Fujita was with the Saints in 2009 when the pay-for-pain bounty pool grew as large as $50,000 and the team won the Super Bowl.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is expected to soon punish players for their roles in the program that got Saints coach Sean Payton suspended for 2012.

Goodell upholds penalties in Saints bounty case

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Goodell upholds penalties in Saints bounty caseFILE - This Oct. 16, 2011 file photo shows New Orleans Saints head coach Sean Payton watching his team warm up for an NFL game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, in Tampa, Fla. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has rejected the appeals of coach Sean Payton and other New Orleans Saints officials stemming from the league's probe into the club's bounty system. After hearing from Payton, general manager Mickey Loomis and assistant head coach Joe Vitt last week, Goodell decided Monday, April 9, 2012, to uphold his initial sanctions, which include Payton's suspension for the entire 2012 season. (AP Photo/Chris O'Meara, File)(Credit: AP)

NEW YORK (AP) — Sean Payton now knows for certain he won’t be coaching in 2012.

And the New Orleans Saints must figure out whether Bill Parcells or someone else is best suited to take over a team seeking its fourth straight trip to the playoffs.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Monday rejected the Saints’ appeals of their unprecedented punishment stemming from the league’s investigation of the club’s bounty system. The program ran from 2009-11 and offered off-the-books bonuses for big hits that knocked targeted opponents out of games or hurt them enough that they required help getting to the sideline.

In addition to upholding Payton’s suspension, which begins next Monday and runs through the Super Bowl — in New Orleans next season — Goodell also upheld suspensions of eight games for general manager Mickey Loomis and six games for assistant head coach Joe Vitt, along with a $500,000 fine for the franchise and the loss of second-round draft picks this year and next.

Vitt and Loomis begin their suspensions after the preseason ends.

The Saints case represents perhaps the starkest example yet of the sea change that the NFL has undergone since medical research and media reports on the long-term damage suffered by football players through concussions began to gain attention a few years ago.

While former players have talked about off-the-books incentives have been around for years, and current players say the tough talk about getting after specific opponents happens in locker rooms throughout the NFL, Goodell responded to the Saints’ case with unprecedented penalties.

Former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, who left the Saints after last season to join the St. Louis Rams, ran the bounty program and has been suspended indefinitely. He did not appeal.

Goodell said in a statement if Payton, Loomis and Vitt “embrace the opportunity and participate in a constructive way,” he would consider reducing the financial penalties on them. While none of them has been fined, each will lose significant amounts while not being paid their salaries during the suspensions.

Goodell also “would consider whether there are factors that would support modifying the forfeiture of the team’s 2013 second-round draft choice.”

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AP Source: NFLPA hires lawyer for Saints bounties

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The NFL Players Association told players involved in the New Orleans Saints’ bounty case that there is a chance they could face criminal charges and it hired outside counsel to represent them if needed.

While Commissioner Roger Goodell weighs how to punish the two dozen or so players the league says might be connected to the bounties, the NFLPA also suggested that players have a lawyer and union representative present when they are interviewed by NFL investigators.

The union plans to head to New York this week to meet with league security staff and review additional evidence, taking up the NFL on an offer it made more than once.

The latest steps were described to The Associated Press on Sunday by two people familiar with the case. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

The NFL has said that 22 to 27 defensive players were part of the Saints’ pay-for-pain bounty pool, which awarded thousands of dollars of cash bonuses from 2009-11 for vicious hits that knocked targeted opponents out of games. One example, according to the league: Linebacker Jonathan Vilma offered $10,000 to any New Orleans player who sidelined Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre during the 2010 NFC championship game.

On March 21, Goodell suspended Saints coach Sean Payton for all of next season, general manager Mickey Loomis for eight games, assistant coach Joe Vitt for six games, and former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams for at least one season. Goodell also fined the Saints $500,000 and took away two second-round draft picks.

The appeals process is expected to begin this week.

When those punishments were announced, Goodell said he would wait for NFLPA input before determining how to discipline players who participated in the bounties.

“While I will not address player conduct at this time, I am profoundly troubled by the fact that players — including leaders among the defensive players — embraced this program so enthusiastically and participated with what appears to have been a deliberate lack of concern for the well-being of their fellow players,” Goodell said.

The NFL has asked the union for contact information for players. The NFLPA, meanwhile, was told by the league it could try to speak to Payton, Loomis, Vitt and Williams.

The league has not given any timetable for when Goodell will decide on penalties for the players, creating uncertainty for the Saints — as well as other teams who might now have any of the players involved.

Gabe Feldman, a law professor and director of the Tulane Sports Law Program, said shortly after the NFL made its investigation public that he didn’t expect any criminal or civil legal action specifically tied to the bounties.

“They’re difficult cases to bring, because it’s hard to prove the injury was caused by a tackle with specific intent to injure, rather than a regular tackle,” Feldman explained at the time. “We all know injuries are a part of football. There can’t be legal liability anytime there is an injury. Otherwise, you can’t have football.”

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Saints overshadow NFL meetings

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Saints overshadow NFL meetingsNew York Giants coach Tom Coughlin smiles during an interview at the NFL owners meeting in Palm Beach, Fla., Wednesday, March 28, 2012. (AP Photo/Luis M. Alvarez)(Credit: AP)

PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — In this unpredictable, headline-grabbing offseason, not even hot topics such as overtime or instant replay can push aside the New Orleans Saints and their bounty program.

NFL owners completed their meetings Wednesday by passing several significant rules changes, including expanding the postseason OT rules to the regular season and having all turnovers reviewed by the replay official, just as all scoring plays currently are.

Yet the spotlight all week was on the Saints, who are talking to Bill Parcells about becoming interim coach while Sean Payton is suspended for the 2012 season.

Other NFL coaches offered their take on Commissioner Roger Goodell’s hefty punishments for Payton and former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, who was suspended indefinitely for overseeing the bounty pool that offered payouts for damaging hits to targeted opponents.

Most coaches said they found it important to discuss. And not only with the media, but with their teams.

“The whole league will talk about it,” Giants coach Tom Coughlin said Wednesday. “The commissioner wants the entire league to make sure it’s discussed — to go forward using it as an example, to stress there is no place for that in our league.”

Several coaches echoed Coughlin, with the hope they will need to bring it up only once to their players. Clubs will gather for workouts in mid-April.

“It’s definitely necessary to mention it,” said Ron Rivera, whose Carolina Panthers play the Saints twice a year in the NFC South. “The precedent has been set by the commissioner and they need to understand that and it is not to be broached again. Going forward, we won’t have to go over these things again.”

Goodell reiterated the league’s strong stance against non-contract bonuses such as the bounty program that cost New Orleans a $500,000 fine and two second-round draft choices. Goodell said the league will not allow any cash payments between players, whether the clubs are involved or not.

“It’s not permissible and we are going to take that out of the game,” he said.

Goodell expects to speak with players’ union head DeMaurice Smith before the end of the week and hopes to have the NFLPA’s recommendations on punishment for players involved in the bounties by then or soon after. The league will be scheduling additional hearings in the investigation.

Detroit Lions coach Jim Schwartz stressed how easy it is to cross the line from acceptable rewards to something sinister.

Schwartz said past awards he’s given out while working for the Tennessee Titans and the Lions — baseball bats or a boxing glove for big hits — had league approval, because they didn’t have any monetary significance.

“It was part of the game-ball program. It wasn’t part of anything else,” Schwartz said. “A recognition system has been in effect for football since pee wee ball. We give out game balls. We give out trophies at the end of the season for all different things. A lot of colleges give out stickers on helmets; high schools give out stickers on helmets. There’s a big difference between things like that and things like bounties.”

Schwartz noted that it’s not unheard of for QBs to buy gifts for their linemen, or for running backs to do the same if they have a big season.

“That would all receive very good press,” he said. “I think what this shows is how fine some of the lines are and how easy it is to go from something like that that’s been around and has been part of football to something that should never be part of football and is not good for our game.”

The game will see some changes in the upcoming season.

All games that go into overtime now cannot end on a field goal on the first possession. The opposing team must get one series, and if it also kicks a field goal, the extra period continues. Of course, if it fails to score it loses, and if it gets a touchdown, it wins.

The rule has not been a factor since it was instituted in 2010, with only two playoff games going to OT. One ended on the first play, Tim Tebow’s 80-yard touchdown pass to Demaryius Thomas for a Denver victory over Pittsburgh. The other had several possessions for each team before the Giants beat the 49ers in the NFC title game this season.

The vote on adopting the new overtime rule was 30-2.

Other rules changes: a team will lose a down for illegally kicking a loose ball; too many men on the field becomes a dead ball foul; and a player receiving a crackback block is now considered a defenseless player and the hit will result in a 15-yard penalty.

Not passed were proposals to have the booth official handle video reviews rather than the referee, and outlawing the horse-collar tackle made on quarterbacks in the pocket.

Given the NFL’s concern with player safety, the failure to extend the horse-collar rule seemed surprising. But competition committee chairman Rich McKay said the ownership “didn’t think this can impact on player safety.”

“The rule was developed for the open-field tackle when a defender has the chance to do something else (in making the tackle),” he said. “He’s also able to use the runner’s momentum against him. We didn’t think that applied to the pocket, didn’t see the injury risk.”

Several bylaw changes were tabled until the league meetings in May, including expanding preseason rosters to 90, designating one player suffering a major injury before Week 2 of the season as eligible to return from injured reserve, and moving the trading deadline back two weeks to after Week 8.

McKay expects them to pass at the next meetings in Atlanta.

“There were good ideas and suggestions, no resistance,” he said. “We’ll work on the language.”

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NFL coaches speak on bounties

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NFL coaches speak on bountiesNew York Giants coach Tom Coughlin, left, gives an interview at the NFL owners meeting in Palm Beach, Fla., Wednesday, March 28, 2012. (AP Photo/Luis M. Alvarez)(Credit: AP)

PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — NFL coaches plan to go right at the league’s most sensitive subject — bounties — when they get together with players next month.

Although a few shied away from commenting at owners meetings this week about the New Orleans Saints’ extra payments, under which players were rewarded for big hits on specific opponents, most coaches said it’s an important subject to address — with the media and with their players.

“The whole league will talk about it,” Giants coach Tom Coughlin said Wednesday.

“The commissioner wants the entire league to make sure it’s discussed — to go forward using it as an example, to stress there is no place for that in our league.”

Last week, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell suspended Saints coach Sean Payton for all of the 2012 season after the league investigated that team’s bounties. Goodell also ordered every principal owner and head coach in the league to certify in writing that their team does not have any sort of pay-for-performance system.

Several coaches echoed Coughlin, hoping they only will need to bring it up once with their players. Clubs will gather for workouts in mid-April.

“It’s definitely necessary to mention it,” said Ron Rivera, whose Carolina Panthers play the Saints twice a year in the NFC South. “The precedent has been set by the commissioner and they need to understand that and it is not to be broached again. Going forward, we won’t have to go over these things again.”

Payton’s former defensive coordinator, Gregg Williams, is barred indefinitely for overseeing the system. Williams was hired as defensive coordinator in St. Louis earlier this year.

Joe Vitt, Payton’s assistant head coach, was suspended for six games, Saints general manager Mickey Loomis got eight games, and the team was fined $500,000. New Orleans also loses a second-round pick in each of the next two drafts.

Detroit Lions coach Jim Schwartz stressed how easy it is to cross the line from acceptable rewards to something sinister.

Schwartz said past awards he’s given out while working for the Tennessee Titans and the Lions — baseball bats or a boxing glove for big hits — had league approval, because they didn’t have any monetary significance.

“It was part of the game-ball program. It wasn’t part of anything else,” Schwartz said. “A recognition system has been in effect for football since pee wee ball. We give out game balls. We give out trophies at the end of the season for all different things. A lot of colleges give out stickers on helmets; high schools give out stickers on helmets. There’s a big difference between things like that and things like bounties.”

Schwartz noted that it’s not unheard of for QBs to buy gifts for their linemen, or for running backs to do the same if they have a big season.

“That would all receive very good press,” he said. “I think what this shows is how fine some of the lines are and how easy it is to go from something like that that’s been around and has been part of football to something that should never be part of football and is not good for our game.”

The NFL sent lead counsel Jeff Pash and security director Jeffrey Miller to New Orleans to speak with the Saints about the bounties one day before they hosted Detroit in a wild-card game in January. The league officials told owner Tom Benson to make sure no bounty system still was in place.

New Orleans had already beaten Detroit in the regular season, when Lions pass rusher Ndamukong Suh was serving a suspension for stomping an opponent.

Was Schwartz aware of anything untoward by the Saints, either time?

“Other than we got beat twice?” he said. “They were physical games but I don’t recall them drawing any penalties. We were the only ones drawing penalties (in Week 13). I don’t recall anything that the guys thought was extra.”

Mike Smith’s Falcons are the Saints’ main rival in their division. Atlanta-New Orleans games usually are close, always are feisty.

“It is a physical game and there are rules we must play by,” Smith said. “As coaches, it is important we make sure we coach to that.”

One of the NFL’s most physical teams — and most fined — is Pittsburgh. Star linebacker James Harrison was suspended one game in 2011 for a hit to a defenseless player, Browns quarterback Colt McCoy. Harrison was deemed a repeat offender, and he frequently has been fined by Goodell for illegal hits.

Pittsburgh coach Mike Tomlin said he’s heard of other teams supposedly placing bounties on the Steelers.

“That talk has been around, but for us, it’s not something that we’ve engaged in,” Tomlin said. “We’ve always been somewhat amused by it. Not that it’s amusing, of course.”

Seattle coach Pete Carroll spent 15 years working in the NFL before going to Southern California for nine hugely successful seasons in college football. He returned to the pros in 2010.

He misses the aura that surrounded some players with a tough-guy image, but recognized that times change.

“The lore of the players that were unique — there’s not a place for that in a way,” he said. “Those of us who are the old-school guys, we miss that. We miss the uniqueness of the tough guys and the way that they were able to demonstrate that. But now, it just doesn’t fit.”

___

AP Sports Writer Tim Reynolds contributed to this story.

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Kickoff rule reduced concussions

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PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Concussions sustained on kickoffs were down 40 percent last season, exactly the kind of statistic the NFL had in mind by moving the kick up to the 35-yard line.

Rich McKay, chairman of the competition committee that proposed the rule change last year, says Monday it “had an effect on the game.” He is surprised that total kickoff returns dropped 53 percent, but encouraged that player safety improved.

McKay also says the committee believes quarterbacks are adequately protected, but the owners will vote this week to enhance that by outlawing horse-collar tackles on passers in the pocket.

He also believes players and coaches are more comfortable now about adopting the postseason overtime rule requiring a team losing the coin toss to get a possession if the opponent kicks a field goal on the first series.

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