Stephan Cox

Liv Ullmann

The renowned actress and director of "Faithless" talks about quick flings in Paris, her pal Ingmar Bergman and how scared we all are.

  • more
    • All Share Services

Liv Ullmann

Adultery is a dead subject. From Hester Prynne to Monica Lewinsky, there’s very little we seem to want to say about it anymore. Thus, it makes perfect sense that someone like Liv Ullmann would take on the scarlet “A” in her latest film, “Faithless.” Ullmann is not jaded, nor does she offer easy answers; on the subject of morality, she’s more interested in what the audience might have to say. In the hands of many other contemporary directors, a film about adultery has the tendency to be pedantic and overly moralistic, featuring, say, Harrison Ford. Ullmann knows better. She ought to — her many years as one of Ingmar Bergman’s lead actors have left their mark, and her directing style reflects his light touch.

“Faithless” was written by Bergman and is based on actual events from his life. It tells the story of Maryanne, who engineers an adulterous affair with her husband’s best friend. What starts out as a simple plan ends in tragedy. But the film is full of ambiguity, and offers no swelling strings to guide the viewer toward the proper conclusion. There are fantastical Bergman-esque elements, too: In the opening frames, an elderly writer named Bergman conjures up the character Maryanne from his memory, and Maryanne begins to recount her painful tale. Or perhaps she never existed, and the whole event is a fiction.

Though “Faithless” marks Ullmann’s fifth outing as a director, she is best known for her work as an actor, appearing in some 40 films, nine of which were directed by Bergman. She has also written two books and has acted on stages all over the world. These days, she has all but retired from acting and dedicates most of her time to directing. She’s uncertain about what’s next for her, and, true to form, she says she’s more interested in letting the answer come to her.

This film is based on painful events from Ingmar Bergman’s life. How did he approach you to direct it with that in mind?

I think he felt it was so personal that he couldn’t do it himself. Because he’s a great artist, most of what he writes is personal, but it’s very seldom you can see [a character representing] Bergman directly in a movie. This time, though, he’s even called the main character Bergman. He said, “I couldn’t think of another name.”

And I think that’s why he wanted someone else to do it, but someone that he really trusted — someone that really could see things he wasn’t sure he wanted to show. He wrote “Faithless” more or less as a monologue. He didn’t want to make a shooting script or anything. He wanted a woman’s vision to be part of it, and a woman’s images, and a woman’s experience. And that’s why he asked me to do it.

Did your relationship with Bergman change between your work with him as an actress and your work with him now as a director?

In some ways, yes, but I’d already directed three films when he asked me to do the first one for him. I just took it that what I had done was something he really liked and really trusted, and that he saw me as a person who knew what was lying behind his words.

It was good, because I had stopped acting for him many years ago. “Autumn Sonata” was the last film we did together, in 1979. I never thought we’d work together again, and suddenly this came, and it’s marvelous. I think few people experience that. You have a love relationship in one field of the arts, and then suddenly you meet many years after and you have another love relationship. And with love, I mean artistic love.

I want to ask you about something you said while making this film. You said, “Unfaithfulness as described in ‘Faithless’ is not a conscious unfaithfulness or an act of will.” I’m curious to know what you meant by that. I would assume you didn’t mean that those who commit adultery are without responsibility.

Oh, they’re absolutely not without responsibility. But I think so many of us think, like in the film, “Oh, I’ll go to Paris and just have an affair in secret, have some fun, and then I’ll be more energized, make a better married life afterwards, and we’ll all be happy.” But those things never happen. The lack of will is that you dream about it, that you make fantasies about it. It’s not that you say, “No, I’m going to Paris to be unfaithful to my man, and that is what I’m going to do.” It is the childish dream you have that you can make everything better by doing something you probably shouldn’t have done in the first place.

Bergman has said that he feels the character of Maryanne is the victim in this film. Do you agree?

No. She set it up. She made it all happen to start with, in a way. There again, I disagree with the woman who plays the lead, Lena Endre. We had been sitting together with a journalist, and she defended her part so much. She understands why it happened. I don’t, in front of her, dare to accuse her too much. But we see it differently. And that’s because she has to defend something. It’s the same with me. If I go out and make a wrong choice, if somebody confronts me with it, it’s tough for me not to defend why I did this, because this is what I felt.

That’s one of the things that make this film so fascinating. You, the writer and the lead actress can all have conflicting ideas about the film is and what it’s supposed to say.

Absolutely. And I’ve met so many people in the audience who have very, very different views. But that’s what a good film is, you know. It’s only true in the way one unique audience member watches it. Everybody sits in a movie theater, and they are unique. And you can go out after, and you can discuss [the movie]. You can say, what does it mean to be unfaithful? What is “faithless”? Does it have to do with human beings, or does it mean that you don’t believe in the values of the world? Do you think that there’s no God that looks upon you? These are interesting things, and you can see it from so many views. So I have mine. But I don’t even want to discuss it anymore because I’m also in this film, just as you are when you watch it.

You’ve done so much with your life creatively. You’ve written, acted and now directed. Is there anything you’d like to do that you haven’t tried yet?

I want to listen, to have time to listen. To have absolute blank time, until it’s not blank anymore. And I don’t really know what I mean by that. I really don’t know what I want to do. The film scripts I have at home are not saying, “Read me, read me.” I want to sit and listen.

I think, more and more, we have to look at the world this way, because the world is such an agonizing place to be right now in so many ways. There’s so much good we could find, and I think maybe we need to sit and listen a little to see what we want to put down on paper, whom we want as our politicians, what we want to say on the radio, TV and a Web site. We don’t listen enough. We just try to press opinions on people.

What you’re saying reminds me of the character you played in “Mindwalk.” You played a physicist who, at one point, advises the character played by Sam Waterston, a politician who has just lost a bid for the presidency, not to see just parts of problems, but to see everything as a whole. How close was that character to you?

Oh, it was very close to me. Of course, I’m not a scientist, so I wouldn’t know all the scientific stuff that I was talking about, but I had a great physicist who taught me, Frijof Capra. But all the rest, those were my words. Sam Waterston, he wrote most of his words, and John Heard wrote most of his words as a poet. We sat in my flat in New York for three weeks and wrote together, and discussed. It was fantastic. We made the movie in a very short time, and I wasn’t sure then that I really believed in it, but I have heard much later that this is a real cult movie for a lot of people. It’s three people that discuss what it means to be alive. And that’s good.

We don’t take time to discuss things much as a culture, do we?

No. And it’s good to take time to have real conversation. We miss it. We need it. And soon, we won’t even know that we miss it. We will have forgotten that we used to have something called conversation.

Today’s media seem to be moving away from that.

In a very dangerous fashion. And it goes quickly. It goes so quickly that, the truth is, we might forget. When our old people die, there may be no remembrance anymore of what is a conversation between two people, and what it means to listen in a conversation and want to be a part of it.

Why do you suppose conversation suffers?

We’re so scared. We’re so lonely. We feel so on the outside, so it’s easier to sit in front of something and just let that thing say things to you. And the quicker the better, so it won’t be found out that you need somebody watching you, listening to you, liking what you say and what you are.

Ed Harris

The Oscar-nominated director and star of "Pollock" talks about silence, living inside your head and the similarity between acting and painting.

  • more
    • All Share Services

Ed Harris

There’s a tacit understanding that a genius need not be held to the same standards of behavior as the rest of us, because talent is so attractive and luminous that the average person will endure anything to stand in the company of brilliance.

One such genius was abstract expressionist painter Jackson Pollock, whose life is currently on display in the movie “Pollock,” directed by Ed Harris, who also stars in the title role. Pollock was arguably the greatest American painter of the 20th century, but he was also, by any standards, a self-absorbed, abusive alcoholic, and those around him paid the price for helping him make his mark. The target for most of Pollock’s ugliness was artist Lee Krasner (played in the film by Marcia Gay Harden), who was, by turns, Pollock’s wife, his caretaker, his mother and his mouthpiece. Harris’ film portrays Krasner as a woman who sacrificed her own painting to support Pollock’s groundbreaking work.

Given Harris’ background (not to mention an uncanny resemblance to his subject), it’s not surprising that he was drawn to Pollock. Harris’ early work with Sam Shepard and the Magic Theatre in San Francisco established him as an actor of craft, able to capture the energetic explosiveness of Shepard’s early work. He is, however, best known as a screen actor who has taken on meaty roles in films like “Glengarry Glen Ross” and “The Right Stuff.” Harris has been nominated twice for best supporting actor — for his work in “Apollo 13″ and “The Truman Show” — and he has recently been nominated for best actor for “Pollock.”

This is your first nomination as best actor. Is it all the sweeter to be nominated for a film you directed and also produced?

I’m glad of the recognition for the film because it’s not a highly commercial venture, and I hope it will encourage some people to check it out who might not have otherwise. I really did spend most of the ’90s working toward making the film and I’m very proud. I was prior to getting a nomination — having a nomination is a little icing on the cake. I’m happy about it.

What initially drew you to the life of Jackson Pollock?

My dad sent me a book in 1986, Jeffrey Potter’s “To a Violent Grave,” which got me going, and I kept reading about him. Then, I got aligned with Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith’s “An American Saga,” the Pulitzer Prize-winning biography about Pollock, back in ’91. And the more I immersed myself in it, the more I was drawn to this guy for various reasons, but primarily because of his relationship to his work — how much it meant to him and how he fought and struggled through a lot of obstacles, some of them personal, to arrive at a way of expressing himself that was truly original and truly his own and ultimately, I think, very pure and honest.

In the film, there’s a moment where Pollock is questioned by a Life magazine reporter about his work, and he says about it, essentially, “I’m just painting.” As an actor and filmmaker, do you relate to that approach of working unconsciously?

I think all of the research you do for a role, all the homework, all the years of acting, the technique you’ve learned — you can try to forget about that at the moment of creation. Yeah, there’s something similar about that: what it is to face a blank canvas and suddenly make a line on it and have it be true and honest and not a manipulative thing.

Jackson Pollock was someone who very much lived inside his head. Comparatively little dialogue comes from him in the film. What were some of the challenges of bringing someone like that to the screen?

Pollock was a notoriously nonverbal individual, although, depending on whom he was talking to, and when, he could rattle on a bit. But basically, he was excruciatingly shy and within himself. He was an outsider, from his high school days on.

It was somewhat difficult [to portray him], but I think silence is very eloquent. The film has a lot of stillness in it where you just get to witness him being or painting, or whatever he might be doing. That was very important to me. The film became more subjective in the editing room, and that’s where it lived for me. It’s really not an art history lesson; it’s really a look at this guy and an attempt to capture some kind of essence of him.

The one thing Pollock held sacred was his work. Who do you think he would have been without his talent?

I don’t think he would have been alive too long. He had a very severe problem with alcohol, and he was probably manic-depressive. Life was very tough for him; I think every day was a bit of a struggle. His art was the one thing that really gave him confidence, self-esteem and a purpose. He spent the last year and a half of his life — when he couldn’t paint anymore, when he didn’t know what to say or have something inside him driving him to paint — in a great deal of emotional and physical pain.

You depict Pollock’s work with documentary filmmaker Hans Namuth, who comes to Pollock’s home and attempts to film the painter’s process. The filming as you show it is funny, because it’s anathema to everything that Pollock was about. He was about spontaneous creation, and the filmmaker keeps hounding him to stop painting when he yells “Cut.” The experience seemed to take a lot out of him.

Pollock felt trapped by the process, even though he felt like he had to do it because he had told the guy he would. It really began to disturb him, and it went on for months. The guy would come out, and they would film on the weekends. I think it really started grating on Pollock. He was like the Native Americans who say, “Don’t take my picture — you’re robbing my soul.” I think he started feeling like he was giving something away that he shouldn’t.

And after it was finished, it drove him to begin drinking again for the first time in two years.

It was the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back. I think he’d had enough.

Was there a challenge, in your mind, to make the film reflect visually what was going on in Pollock’s mind?

I didn’t want to make an abstract film about an abstract painter; I wanted to make a film that was accessible, and I didn’t want it to draw attention to itself technically. I wanted it to be very straightforward and pretty simple, and let what you see speak for itself. That’s pretty much how we approached it.

I mean, there were some attempts to film the paint falling slow-motion onto the canvas, etc., but anything that reeked of “Look at this” I took out. It didn’t belong in the movie.

There are a number of paintings shown in the film that look like Pollock originals. Were they?

One of the greatest challenges to me was to present the work accurately, because he really lived with his work; it really was his life. We got permission from the Pollock-Krasner Foundation, from Charles Bergman and the president, Eugene Thaw, for rights to the images.

At first, I was going to try to film the images at the retrospective and then CGI [computer-generated image] them into the movie, which would have been incredibly expensive. Our production designer, Mark Freedberg, said he could get great scenic artists to re-create Pollocks, because no one was going lend them to us — you know, the insurance alone would be the budget of the movie. So a group of artists re-created his masterpieces, and I was blown away. I really didn’t think it could be done. They work great cinematically, and that’s one of the aspects of the film I’m most proud of.

You yourself painted in the film. You’ve been painting for a while in preparation. How’d you learn to do it?

The drip-pour technique is something that I studied myself and worked on for a good eight or nine years prior to filming. I built a studio on the lower part of my property so I could work on larger canvases. I really wanted to get to a point where I could paint for myself — not so much imitating Pollock per se, or painting in his style, but trying to create something that meant something to me and learn what it means to face a canvas and to live with the work you’re trying to create.

Any plans to exhibit these paintings in the future?

No. They were really more of a process than doing something to try to put in a gallery somewhere.

Was the experience of directing fulfilling for you?

It was certainly challenging, and I did relish not so much being in control, but having the say-so over what this film would become, because I’d worked so long and hard on it. I would like to direct again in the future, but it would have to be something that was very personal, that I would need to do, and it probably won’t be anytime soon.

Continue Reading Close