Whitney Joiner

The beard, the breasts and the bulge

Kingdom Come, a touring troupe of five of America's most famous drag kings -- complete with strap-ons, leather and one hell of an homage to George Michael -- are taking their act down South.

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The beard, the breasts and the bulge

In the cramped basement dressing room of a tiny club in New York’s East Village, Stacey Whitmire, 28, prepares to take the stage. She has everything she needs to transform herself into her alter ego, Johnny Kat: his trademark ’70s denim and leather patchwork bell-bottomed suit; hair clippings from a recent cut that she’ll use for his mutton chops; and, of course, the package — a small, pliable “softie” that resembles a flaccid penis. Truthfully, Whitmore’s softie — covered with a thin layer of fuzz and lint - is pretty sad-looking. But she’ll use it anyway, because when you’re a drag king, you have to pack with something.

“I used to use a sock cock,” she says. “But I got the softie last year and it’s fun having that realness in my pants.”

Whitmire’s Johnny Kat is the opening act for Kingdom Come, a touring cavalcade that will take five of North America’s best-known drag kings throughout the South and Midwest. For three weeks, the kings — Carlos Las Vegas, Ken Las Vegas, Christopher, Luster and Pat Riarch — will tool around in a Winnebago, performing in places like Jackson, Miss., and Chattanooga, Tenn. And they’ll be trailed by a film crew. Director Sonia Slutsky and producer Nigel Noble (the team behind the New York Times Television’s “Portraits of Grief”) are filming the tour for a documentary, tentatively titled “On the Road with the Kings,” to air this fall or winter on the Discovery Health channel.

It’s the latest chapter in the mainstreaming of drag kings. Kinging has thrived in New York and San Francisco’s queer underground since the early ’80s. But unlike drag queens, who had their golden moment 10 years ago thanks to the movies “Wigstock,” “The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert” and “To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything,” kings are still pretty marginal. Nonetheless, for the past few years they’ve been creeping into the periphery of the public consciousness: John Waters cast badass Brooklyn drag star Mo B. Dick in “Pecker,” and “Sex and the City’s” demure Charlotte donned a suit and moustache for a steamy photo session with a famed drag king photographer. Drag king performance troupes have cropped up in lesbian communities in cities as small and surprising as Louisville, Ky., and Roanoke, Va. And “On the Road With the Kings” isn’t the only upcoming documentary about drag kings: “Venus Boyz,” a film released in Europe last spring, profiles pioneering New York kings Dred, Diane Torr and Mo B. Dick; it will be released in New York in August.

If the Kingdom Come kings are nervous about performing and being filmed, they’re not showing it. The dressing room is a flurry of activity, a bonanza of makeup kits and elaborate costumes: fringed chaps, sequined suits, fetish gear. Most of the kings have been doing this for five, six and seven years now; dressing in drag is second nature.

“Johnny’s looking pretty hot tonight!” Whitmire says, checking herself out in a full-length mirror and fashioning her short red hair into a pompadour.

A line is already forming outside the club, but the kings don’t rush; transformation is an art, and art takes time. Besides, credibility is key. A woman needs more than clothes to make a man. To do drag, you have to deal with the drag-king basics: the beard, the breasts and the bulge. You’ll need facial hair, but full beards are too high-maintenance; most kings go with a moustache, soul patch, chinstrap or goatee. (All hopelessly out of style, but still.) After sketching out the design with some eyeliner, fill in the shape with spirit gum (a glue-like substance that won’t hurt the skin), and carefully paste the clippings you’ve cut from your hair into the shape of the beard. Repeat this process for sideburns and chest hair. Eyeshadow shading makes a nice 5 o’clock look, if you’re into that. If you’re not blessed with naturally tiny breasts, you’ll need to bind them, using an extra-tight sports bra or wrapping an ace bandage, Saran Wrap or duct tape around your chest. Then it’s packing time: nestle a loose dildo, a strap-on, a sock, or a condom filled with birdseed between two layers of men’s briefs or under a jock strap. Throw on some baggy clothes, pin up and slick back your hair, widen your stance and maybe handle your crotch, lightly, to protect your new package. There you have it: instant man.

Drag kinging isn’t just male impersonation, kings say; it’s performing masculinity. There’s a difference. “Drag kings make visible the ways in which masculinity — as much as femininity — is a sort of theatrical performance,” says Judith Halberstam, a professor of English at UC-San Diego and author of the two drag-king essentials: “Female Masculinity” and “The Drag King Book.”

Theatrical, for sure: Once the show begins, the kings’ complicated and often campy interpretations of masculinity run the gamut from swanky martini-loving playboy to effeminate gay man to uptight suit to closeted Catholic priest. If one kind of transformation happens in the dressing room — from “female” to “male” — another happens onstage, as the kings shift from goofy dykes jostling one another backstage to dynamic, sexy entertainers.

One by one, the performers take the stage: baby-faced Ken Las Vegas (who is no longer with the tour) channels Prince for the tortured ballad “The Beautiful Ones,” sporting a purple and black smoking jacket, playing a miniature rhinestone piano and provocatively thrusting his pelvis; Christopher, all flat abs and floppy hair, does David Bowie’s Berlin-fueled satire of male privilege and paean to homoerotic friendships, “Boys Keep Swinging,” swaggering and gyrating around the stage, stripping from a suit to a Boy Scout uniform to a leather vest and black briefs.

By the time Pat Riarch comes on for the last act of the show, the audience is totally turned on, cheering and hooting at the performers. And Pat’s final act pushes them over the edge: He appears onstage as a Catholic priest, wearing a brown robe and holding a Bible. Carlos Las Vegas, in a white robe, is his reverent altar boy. As George Michael’s “Father Figure” begins, Pat and Carlos steal forbidden glances at one another over their theological texts. Then Carlos discovers Pat’s hidden gay porn, and they eventually shed their robes to reveal leather gear; it becomes an S/M scene, with Pat topping Carlos. The lyrics “I’ll be your daddy” are more than apt. Turn-on? Yes, but not the comfortable kind.

“Basically, I try to have some political message that’s paired with humor and sensuality, set to early ’80s music,” says Pat Riarch, the alter ego of Amy Neevel, 30, a freelance consultant and Web site tester from New York. “That’s kind of my bag.”

Discussing the meaning of drag kinging can quickly become a virtual Gender Studies 101 course, with lots of talk about “safe spaces” and “gender-fucking” and “dialogue.” It’s a feminist statement that simultaneously steals, mocks and exaggerates male privilege. It’s a parody of the ways our culture still thinks of masculinity as infallible.

“I think of Pat as someone who is deeply troubled by his existence as a white male, who’s ultimately embodying a really harmful system,” says Neevel, who’s also serving as the de facto manager of the tour. “So when I’m Pat, I’m trying to take on an understanding of that male power, and what it is to feel that cockiness. But, at the same time, what it is to feel the pain underneath that cockiness — the restriction of expression and sexuality.”

The kings are reluctant to detail the differences between kings and queens (“They’re my sisters!” says Winnipeg’s Reece Lagartera, 27, aka Carlos Las Vegas. “We have a similar love of fabric and lamé!”), preferring instead to talk about the ways they can work together and support one another in queer culture. But the politics of drag do create a divide between queens and kings. For one thing, says Halberstam, American culture accepts the idea of appropriating femininity more easily than appropriating masculinity. “Femininity is not protected provenance in a culture that’s geared towards male hierarchy,” she says. “When it comes to taking on, parodying and performing masculinity — that sort of scene is more serious, in a way. You can even see it in the acts; the acts don’t look as campy as the drag queen acts.”

While anyone can be a drag king — femme lesbians, straight women, men, whoever — the majority of kings are masculine offstage, too. “For some of these guys, they’re butch or transgendered, and their masculinity is real,” says Halberstam. “But some of them are feminine women offstage and for them the act is all about transformation.”

Neevel “really, really” wanted to be a boy in elementary school. “I’d lie to kids about being a boy and play with them for a month, but then they’d find out,” she says. Now, as the über-political Pat Riarch, she can be. Kinging, she says, is “the culmination of my young desires and my adult political ideals. I’m able to be the cute guy I always wanted to be back in fourth and fifth grade. And that’s really satisfying. When I came to New York I was still struggling with [the fact that] I’m a biological female,” she says. “There were certain ways I was supposed to dress and conduct myself. But I was completely miserable. For me, [kinging] is liberating: people are really excited to see you and really celebrating what you’re looking like and doing onstage.”

Maybe they were bullied as children for wearing boys’ clothes, or maybe they wish they could go to work wearing a suit and tie: As drag kings, masculine women are allowed to swagger, strut and be as queer as they want to be. What might be read as confusing and strange outside is rendered sexy on the drag king stage.

And that’s exactly what’s threatening to the mainstream, says Halberstam. It’s the reason why drag kinging ultimately might not infiltrate straight culture the way drag queens have. “Straight women find it threatening because it’s like, Does this mean I’m a lesbian if I think this guy’s cute? Straight men find it threatening because, after all, that’s supposed to be their domain. And lesbians find it threatening because it seems like this is the stereotype of what a lesbian is — a women who wants to be a man.”

To some extent, the presentation of masculine women as sex objects flies in the face of the old-school lesbian woman-centered ideal. Before he came out as trans, when he’d just started doing drag, Lagartera’s fellow Winnipeg lesbians accused him of “emulating the oppressor,” he says. “I said, it’s not me being a man,” says Lagartera, who’s transitioning and currently on testosterone. “It’s me being masculine. And passing for something other than a woman.” (In fact, all of the members of Kingdom Come, androgynous offstage, identify as masculine in some way. Neevel prefers “transgendered” or “faggy dyke”; Noelle Campbell-Smith, aka Toronto’s Christopher, identifies as a “boyish lesbian”; NYC native Whitmire likes the term “genderqueer.”)

Christopher — the sexy-but-nutty playboy alter ego of Campbell-Smith — isn’t that different from the person she is offstage. Besides the few painful years when she was married, before she came out (she has a 9-year-old daughter who doesn’t know about her mother’s performance life), she’s always preferred to look androgynous. “I like being a woman,” says Campbell-Smith, a 32-year-old Web designer. “And I like being a man whenever I feel like it. I’m fluid all the time, depending what day it is.” Her family and friends have always accepted her boyish nature, she says, which is probably why she shrugs off the politics of drag. “Christopher’s just the male me. I don’t think that being a drag king is political for me. I’m not trying to fuck The Man. I’ve probably only done a couple of numbers where I’ve tried to make a statement.”

Kingdom Come isn’t the first drag-king tour — Mo B. Dick started the Club Casanova in the 1996 and took it on the road two years later — but it’s the first tour to bring along a camera crew. Slutsky, the film’s director, met Neevel while working on an unrelated documentary featuring Neevel’s ex-girlfriend, also a drag king. Slutsky accompanied the couple to the International Drag King Extravaganza — an annual conference held in Columbus, Ohio, and produced by fellow Kingdom Come performer Luster (Columbus’ 42-year-old Síle Singleton) — and was immediately intrigued. “Drag really challenges set notions of gender,” she says. “In large part because drag kings pass so seamlessly. For me as a woman, looking at another woman who — in a very short period of time, with very little manipulation — can appear to be a man, is fascinating.”

Since drag has historically been an urban phenomenon, the kings were somewhat wary about traveling through rural areas, especially the South. Neevel chose the route because she wanted to introduce the art of drag king to new audiences: “The premise of the experience was to see how people who maybe haven’t seen drag kings react to us, and what it means for us to be traveling through these towns,” she says. But that didn’t ease the other kings’ fears. As the only people of color on the tour, both Lagartera and Singleton, who’s African-American, were especially nervous. “I’m not just nervous that we’re going to the Bible Belt, where people have no bones about their differences,” says Singleton, a former scholar of race theory who now produces drag events full-time. “I’m also nervous because I’m not quite sure the majority of people going with us understand what it means for me, as a black person, to be surrounded by white people, with my big queer trans self being like, ‘Hey, everybody, guess what I do? Wear a dick and dance around onstage!’”

But so far, the kings have been pleasantly surprised. They’ve discovered that there are rich, energized queer scenes everywhere. “They’re just as sexual when we do our shows — hooting at us and stuffing tips down our pants,” says Whitmire. “They may live in a small town, but they still know what they like and they’re not afraid to express it.” In Biloxi, Miss., the staff at the lesbian bar where they performed painted a mural of the Kingdom Come logo. Luster made over $100 in tips that night, and afterwards, the kings signed everything from T-shirts to breasts. “We weren’t sure what to expect, being in Biloxi,” says Whitmire. “There was a pretty young crowd — a really hungry market. I don’t think anybody there had seen a drag troupe. I talked to a few people there, a 22-year-old young dyke and a dyke in her 40s, about how to start a troupe of their own.” And that’s what they love about drag, say the kings: They know how powerful it can be, they know how it’s enriched and informed their lives, and they’re energized by the idea that it might reach more women. “I mean, how boring it must be to be totally straight — totally feminine or totally masculine,” says Singleton. “It’s such a beautiful place to be here, floating along back and forth.”

Not your mother’s comic book

In her brilliant new novel "Diary of a Teenage Girl," Phoebe Gloeckner's heroine (and alter ego) falls in love with a lesbian junkie, shoots speed and has an affair with her mother's boyfriend.

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Not your mother's comic book

For an artist known for creating unsettling comics filled with graphic sexual imagery, Phoebe Gloeckner’s studio, a converted garage attached to her suburban Long Island home, is surprisingly subdued. Her daughters’ artwork decorates the walls. Bookshelves overflow with scientific reference books, “Sanford and Son” videotapes, coloring books. Fluffy pillows cover an oversized chair and a built-in loveseat by the door. It’s cluttered, homey, comfortable.

Only two illustrations of Minnie, Gloeckner’s signature character, alter ego and the heroine of her brilliant new comics/text hybrid novel, “Diary of a Teenage Girl,” hang above her desk. While working on “Diary,” Gloeckner, 42, a medical illustrator and the reigning queen of alternative comics, couldn’t display most of her illustrations, she says. She didn’t want her daughters, ages 11 and 4, to see them.

Of course: How could she explain the “Diary” drawing of 15-year-old Minnie and Monroe, her 35-year-old lover — and her mother’s boyfriend — arguing naked with Monroe’s scrotum in plain view? Or the one of Minnie watching a pimp swagger down San Francisco’s Market Street and wondering, “How does one become a prostitute?”

For the past 27 years, Gloeckner has been one of the premier alternative cartoonists, if not the most prolific. She’s also one of the most explicit: Her first collection of comics and illustrations, 1998′s “A Child’s Life and Other Stories,” was confiscated by British and French customs officials who deemed it pornographic. Their main complaint: a panel of a young Minnie, Hello Kitty diary by her side, about to give a blow job to a much older man.

“Diary of a Teenage Girl,” published late last year, continues the story of Minnie, a precocious and insecure 15-year-old growing up in San Francisco in the late 1970s. Living with a mother who fills the house with her friends and their pot smoke, wine glasses and coke lines, Minnie craves love and attention. Hungry for experience, she begins a tortured affair with the first man who notices her: Monroe, her mother’s boyfriend. Hoping to impress him, and experimenting with her newfound sexual knowledge, Minnie starts to pick up strangers in Golden Gate Park and revels in the lecherous stares of older men. (“I really want to get laid right now,” reads an early entry. “I don’t know if I’ve made that clear — I really love getting fucked.”) After expulsion from various private schools, she runs away to Polk Street, where young gay boys and trannies hang out, and where drugs abound. Eventually, she falls in with Tabatha, a troubled junkie who shoots Minnie up with speed and heroin and prostitutes her for drugs.

In form alone, it’s a groundbreaking work: Minnie’s diary entries intermingle with illustrations; comics move the narrative along. It’s also one of the most brutally honest, shocking, tender and beautiful portrayals of growing up female in America. This diary is no cautionary tale, no “Go Ask Alice.” Minnie is achingly real, and — despite her out-there explorations with drugs and sex — incredibly easy to relate to. She loves Janis Joplin and R. Crumb and science and eggs and the color purple; she spends her allowance on candy; she bullies her little sister.

There’s a reason why Minnie is so realized: like most of Gloeckner’s work, “Diary” is based on her own life.

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In many ways, Gloeckner still seems like a teenager. Her nails are painted black, and she constantly plays with her hair — auburn, long, layered, with bangs. When I arrive at her Long Island home, Avril Lavigne is blasting from her car stereo. When she talks, she sits cross-legged or back on her heels, gesturing wildly, her huge green eyes widening. She looks like a grown-up Minnie.

Gloeckner was born in Philadelphia and moved to San Francisco with her mother, sister and stepfather when she was 11. She and her sister had limited contact with their father, a Philadelphia artist who had a “nomadic life,” Gloeckner says — and a drug problem. “When I was 14, before I’d ever taken any drugs,” she recalls, “he gave me and my sister each this necklace with a little glass vial on it with a top that screwed off. It was filled with cocaine. We were totally puzzled: Why did he give us this? I walked around for months with this thing full of cocaine around my neck.” She laughs. “He was trying to win our favor. And I guess he just imagined that would be a connection to us: We’re teenagers — don’t we like drugs? Well, yeah. But it was kind of premature.”

Although she only saw him once or twice a year, Gloeckner’s father encouraged her drawing ability. At first, she only drew in secret, infuriating her mother by spilling bottles of India ink on her bed. Fascinated by her mother’s copies of Zap - the underground comic that featured R. Crumb, his wife Aline Kominsky and a host of other legendary cartoonists — and inspired by Kominsky’s autobiographical stories, Gloeckner started drawing comics at 15. “It kind of gave me license to do something about my life,” she says of Kominsky’s work, “because it seemed to be autobiographical — although I didn’t know for sure.”

And Gloeckner had a lot of material. Like Minnie, for three years she was secretly involved with her mother’s boyfriend, a 35-year-old real estate salesman who played ball and “palled around” with Gloeckner and her sister. “When he first started showing his interest in me, I was shocked,” says Gloeckner. “I mean, I couldn’t believe it. But I thought, if he’s doing this, it must be OK.

“I was so insecure, and I thought I was so hideously ugly. (I felt) no one would ever want to kiss me or have sex with me, so I’m crazy if I don’t take this opportunity. I just felt lucky.”

At 15, in one of her earliest comics, “Mary the Minor,” Gloeckner began exploring this relationship. “You don’t like me at all. I know you don’t!” Mary cries, tormented by guilt about betraying her mother, but desperately wanting her boyfriend to love her.

“Are you kidding?” he replies. “What dirty old man like me wouldn’t give anything to fuck a 15-year-old regularly?”

San Francisco’s comics community was full of artists using controversial and ultra-personal material, so when Gloeckner began to show her work to local cartoonists — some of whom were casual acquaintances of her mother — most weren’t shocked by its content. It was her talent that caught their attention.

Diane Noomin, creator of “DiDi Glitz” and co-editor of “Twisted Sisters,” an edgy comic by women cartoonists that greatly influenced Gloeckner, recalls a teenaged Gloeckner showing up at her apartment to show her work. “Even then I thought she was way better than many cartoonists who were already in print,” Noomin says.

“I remember thinking, when we looked at her work, nobody would believe they were done by a teenage girl,” says Noomin’s husband, Bill Griffith, creator of “Zippy the Pinhead.” “They were so beyond her years in every way. Phoebe was speaking with a very honest and strangely mature voice.”

Gloeckner continued to publish a few comics a year in small underground comic books like “Weirdo” and “Young Lust.” “You have absolute freedom when you know that very few people will see it,” she says. “There were no limitations as to what you could depict or write about. It was incredibly freeing, and I really enjoyed that.”

But instead of eking out a living as a full-time cartoonist, Gloeckner decided to explore her interest in science at San Francisco State University; she was determined to get an education, unlike her artist-addict father. She received a master’s degree in medical illustration from the University of Texas and began a career drawing pamphlets for doctor’s offices and pharmaceutical companies. Her technical training is immediately evident in Gloeckner’s work, in her intimate knowledge of the human body and in her objective, distant eye. Her illustrations are precise, capturing the most subtle facial expressions. “She’s one of the very best draftsmen in comics, period,” says Griffith. “The drawings are so fully detailed that you can gain as much from a close-up of someone’s face as you can from a page of text.” Noomin agrees: “Due to her medical illustration background she has the ability to depict things so perfectly and true and therefore it’s more shocking to people. You can’t ignore it.”

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In a wooden cabinet at the back of her studio, Gloeckner’s teenage diaries are stored in a giant plastic container. She pulls out a blue folder, worn with age, and shows me the tattered typewritten pages that evoke lines from “Diary.” Aside from the run-on sentences and misspellings, it’s unmistakably Minnie’s story. I catch an actual passage that I recognize from “Diary.” “Lovely lovely colorful daytime. How could you exchange it for a drunken night?”

Gloeckner also wrote in a Hello Kitty diary, which she carried around San Francisco, writing in coffee shops and diners. The first entries are neat, the handwriting large and round and childish, the dates carefully recorded in the small spaces at the top. By the end, during her time with “Tabatha” on the streets of the Tenderloin, the pages are stained with lipstick and blood, the writing haphazard and messy.

But even though “Diary” is based on her own diaries, and even though the book’s cover is a picture of Gloeckner at 15, she hesitates to label it autobiographical, or even semi-autobiographical. She’s been asked this question so many times; answering it obviously frustrates her.

“OK,” she says, taking a deep breath. “I believe that all art is about the artist,” she says. “So, yeah, my work is about me. But being an artist — art is artifice, it’s creation. By reading that book, you’re not experiencing what I experienced. You’re perhaps experiencing my interpretation of it, but you’re bringing yourself to it. In that way, I always hesitate to say this is a true story. I’m not attempting in any way to make documentary. You can never represent everything. It’s always a selective process.

“I mean, really, my motivation is, ‘This all happened to me. I feel really totally fucked-up. I don’t understand any of this. Let’s look at it. Let’s not look at it sideways or make it look prettier, but let’s just look at it for what it is.’ I think the reason people relate to it is because I don’t avoid things that may seem unpleasant. I don’t really judge things … I just look at them.”

“Diary” is different, somewhat, from Gloeckner’s actual adolescence: She omitted unnecessary characters, merged characters, and crafted an ending. But even though she refers to Minnie as a character, the two are so intertwined that Gloeckner moves seamlessly between referring to herself and referring to Minnie.

“As I grew older, I had experiences that made me feel that perhaps Minnie didn’t have such a great upbringing,” she says. “It’s possible to develop a compassion for yourself … it’s almost this schizophrenic thing, where you can look at yourself and think, ‘Gee, that poor girl, I wish I could help her.’

“In everyday life I tend to hate myself half the time, but yet, I love that poor little girl, and look at all those assholes — I’ve really got to help her! And by extension, I understand all those other little girls that this might be happening to, or who might be having these disturbing feelings, and I love them all and I’d love to give them a voice. She’s not me anymore. She’s Minnie. She’s all these girls … She doesn’t have to be me. She’s bigger than me.”

Talking to Gloeckner about Minnie does feel slightly schizophrenic: I’m constantly aware that I have to choose when asking questions. Am I asking about Minnie, or Gloeckner?

On our way to lunch at a Mexican restaurant in her neighborhood, Gloeckner needed to drop off a package at the post office. “I’m going to smoke a cigarette while I wait,” I told her when we pulled into the parking lot.

“I love to smoke,” she said wistfully. “I smoked two packs a day until my kids were born.”

“But Minnie doesn’t smoke,” I pointed out.

“Oh,” says Gloeckner, “Minnie didn’t start until she was 19.”

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Gloeckner has always toyed with the idea of using her teenage diaries as the basis for a book, but it wasn’t until a few years ago, after she’d been happily married to her third husband (a chemistry professor at SUNY-Stony Brook), and had children, that she decided to try. “If I had written this book when I was 20, I would’ve been so judgmental,” she says. “I would’ve written it almost in a punishing manner, and not giving this voice any freedom to emerge. I would’ve been ashamed and horrified. If I wrote it when I was 30, I would’ve been too upset. I had my first child; I would’ve written it in a reactionary mode. It wasn’t until now, that I can write with a calmer eye, and I can just let it come out the way it did.”

But behind her Zen approach lies a mountain of residual anger: anger at her mother, at her mother’s boyfriend, and, especially, at a culture that simultaneously hyper-sexualizes teenage girls while projecting standards of innocence upon them.

“Just looking at [the diaries], I got incredibly pissed,” she says. “Sometimes when I would tell people that the first person I had sex with was my mom’s boyfriend, they would romanticize that. Some man said to me, ‘Well, weren’t you lucky that you had an older man who could introduce you …’ It’s like a romantic fantasy. And it’s insane. Even women would say things like that. So I guess it really pisses me off — the fantasies built around that particular kind of relationship.

“When I looked around, before I did that book, all I could see was projection and fantasy on teenage girls — which just infuriated me. And at the same time I’m thinking, how can this man, who’s my mother’s boyfriend, want to have sex with me? There’s something perverse about having sex with a woman and her daughter. It’s like incest, whether or not you’re related to those people by blood. It’s breaking a family. The mother and the daughter become rivals. The mother is no longer protecting the daughter. In that way, it’s incredibly destructive. In my situation it’s harder to see, perhaps, because the family was never really together — but it destroys all possibility of that family ever healing and coming together. There’s a rift created by this man who’s decided to do that.” Gloeckner’s mother eventually found out about her relationship with her boyfriend — a friend whom Gloeckner had entrusted with the secret told her — and she drunkenly confronted him at a bar. “How many times did you pork her, Monroe?” Minnie’s mother says in “Diary.” “How many? Was it good?”

“Instead of getting angry at him, she became angry at me,” Gloeckner says of her mother’s reaction. “There was no ‘protect my child’ impulse kindled. I’ve always thought that she’s never taken any responsibility for that situation. It hurt it a lot. I suddenly realized that my mother was not someone I could trust and rely on. At that age, I still was able to dream that she would come to my rescue.” (Her mother is, amazingly, still friends with the man.)

Gloeckner’s mother has read “A Child’s Life,” she says, but hasn’t read “Diary.” “She said it was too upsetting,” says Gloeckner. “In one way she’s proud of me; in another way she’s furious. She tends to be sarcastic when she talks to me; she always has been. Like, I’m teaching (a drawing class) and she said, ‘Oh, well, are you going to teach them all to take their diaries and make a book out of it?’”

“What Phoebe has managed to do is make art out of harrowing experiences,” says Noomin. “And they’re not just vomited onto the page. It’s not just ‘Well, this terrible thing happened, and I did a comic about it, and everyone should be interested because it’s about child abuse.’ It’s way beyond that. She’s a very evocative writer. She’s very powerful.”

Gloeckner’s work especially resonates with girls and women who have experienced sexual abuse, says Richard Grossinger, co-publisher of Frog, Ltd./North Atlantic Books, her publisher. “I don’t think they’re comforting stories,” he says. “But the comfort lies in having the stories told at all.”

Despite Gloeckner’s status among other cartoonists (“Diary” blew me away. It had to be the most outstanding book of last year,” says legendary cartoonist Kim Deitch), her work, like many alternative cartoonists’, hasn’t sold exceptionally well — partly because of the explicit sexual images. “Her work should do far better than it does,” says Grossinger. “It suffers somewhat, especially the first book, from bookstores not wanting to carry it. They’re worried some kid is going to take it home and the parents are going to make a fuss.”

Gloeckner seems unaware, to a certain extent, of the shocking nature of her work. Probably because her drawings depicting teen sexuality (one involves Minnie and her best friend Kimmie sitting naked on Monroe’s bed after a threesome) aren’t meant to court controversy. “I guess I don’t really see it,” she says. “I kind of live in this bubble of seclusion in the garage in suburbia, and even when I lived in San Francisco, I lived in the bubble of underground cartoonists, where nothing was shocking. Although I know there’s this big dangerous world out there that thinks what I do is shocking or weird, if I internalized that and looked at myself that way — I couldn’t look. I try not to think too much about other people’s view.”

“I don’t think she wants to push boundaries,” says Noomin. “She’s just doing stuff from very deep inside and she won’t hold back. She has integrity and honesty; she won’t compromise. If it involves drawing something that somebody’s going to interpret as pornographic, so be it.”

In “A Child’s Life,” a comic called “Fun Things to Do With Little Girls” is signed “Phoebe ‘Never Gets Over Anything’ Gloeckner.”

“I was making fun of myself,” she says. “I hadn’t said everything I wanted to say, (and) I could see very clearly that anyone looking at it might think, ‘Jesus Christ, she’s writing another thing about this?’ And I knew I would do it again, too.”

But with “Diary,” Gloeckner says she’s finished with that period of her life. She wants to write another book, and, possibly, make a movie. What would Minnie think of her life now? I ask.

“I don’t think she would understand how to get from where she is then to where I am now,” Gloeckner says. “But I think that’s kind of what she wants. She just wants to be a creator. She has that energy. She wants to be an artist. I don’t think she’d be surprised. But living in Long Island, I don’t know …” She laughs. “She might be very disappointed.”

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