Hans Hoyng

“I will not back down”

In an interview, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas discusses peace talks with Israel, disappointment with Obama

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Mr. President, the whole world is waiting for you to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for talks. When is this finally going to happen?

That depends on Israel. We Palestinians have always said that we are willing to negotiate, but only if Israel stops settlement construction completely and recognizes the 1967 borders.

Why are you standing in the way of talks by setting these preconditions?

They aren’t preconditions, but steps that are overdue after the first phase of the international roadmap for peace. Unlike Israel, we have met our obligations: We have recognized Israel’s right to exist, and we are combating violent Palestinian groups. The Americans, the Europeans and even the Israelis have acknowledged this.

At least Netanyahu has ordered a 10-month freeze on settlements, something no other Israeli prime minister has done. Wouldn’t it be your turn now to take a step in his direction?

It isn’t a real moratorium, because a few thousand housing units are still being built in the West Bank, and Jerusalem is completely exempted from the settlement freeze.

You negotiated with Netanyahu’s predecessor, Ehud Olmert, even though settlement construction was continuing without restrictions at the time. Aren’t you applying a double standard here?

In a way, yes. But I have asked Olmert to freeze settlement construction every time we met. Besides, Barack Obama was elected president of the United States in the interim. In his speech to the Islamic world in Cairo, he called for a complete freeze on settlements. When the American president does this, I cannot accept anything less.

But now Obama is only talking about Israeli “restraint” in building settlements. At his request, you even agreed to a symbolic handshake with Netanyahu in New York.

I was initially very optimistic after Obama won the election. His Middle East envoy, George Mitchell, kept coming to us and promised to urge the Israelis to stop settlement construction completely. Mitchell said that the negotiations would only resume after a moratorium. The American government suddenly backed away from this position in September.

Are you saying that it’s the Americans’ fault that things aren’t progressing?

Naturally, I’m not pleased with the Americans’ change of course. But I will not back down.

What do you expect from Obama?

I still hope that he will revive the peace process. At least he has to convince the Israelis to announce a complete freeze on construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem for a few months.

Apparently the pressure Obama has exerted on Israel until now hasn’t been very effective.

It isn’t my job to tell the Americans how to deal with Israel. But they have options. They are, after all, the most powerful country in the world. Obama said that a Palestinian state constitutes a vital American interest. The president is under an obligation to apply all of his energy to achieving peace and the vision of a Palestinian state.

Could it be that the real reason for the current standstill is that you don’t trust Netanyahu?

What he has said so far, at any rate, leads me to question whether he really wants a solution. He has not expressly accepted the two-state solution.

In a speech at Bar-Ilan University in June 2009, Netanyahu said: “If the Palestinians recognize Israel as the Jewish state, we are ready to agree to a real peace agreement, a demilitarized Palestinian state side by side with the Jewish state.”

You see, he’s the one who is setting preconditions. He declares Jerusalem as the “undivided and eternal capital of the State of Israel.” He refuses to discuss the question of Palestinian refugees. And he insists that we accept Israel in advance as a Jewish state.

But the principle of the two-state solution must mean that the one state is for the Palestinians and the other is for the Jews. Why do you have a problem with recognizing Israel as a Jewish state?

We recognized the State of Israel within the 1967 borders. Whether it defines itself as a Jewish state, a Hebrew state or a Zionist state is its business. As far as I’m concerned, it can call itself what it pleases. But he cannot force me to agree with this definition.

Israel wouldn’t be Israel without a Jewish majority.

It is a fact that the majority of the citizens of the State of Israel are Jews. But it isn’t within my power to define Israel’s character.

But with such remarks, you create the suspicion among Israelis that you actually hope to eventually overcome this Jewish majority, particularly when you continue to insist that all Palestinians expelled in 1948 have the right of return.

I understand these concerns. Today, there are 5 million Palestinian refugees. I’m not saying that they all have to return, but we need a fair solution. United Nations Resolution 194 …

… of Dec. 11, 1948 …

… states that those who relinquish their right of return must receive appropriate financial compensation for doing so. In other words, the solution has been on the table for 60 years, so what’s the problem?

Netanyahu’s predecessor Ehud Olmert made you the best offer: The establishment of a Palestinian state on far more than 90 percent of the West Bank, a division of Jerusalem and the return of a few thousand refugees to Israel. Why did you reject it?

I didn’t reject it. Olmert resigned from office because of his personal problems.

You waited too long. If you had accepted, most Israelis would probably have been willing to ignore the corruption charges against Olmert. Former Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban once said that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity …

 … to miss an opportunity. Yes, I’m familiar with the quote. But we did seize the opportunity when Olmert was in office. We negotiated very seriously with him. We exchanged maps showing the locations of the borders. Then he left office. His successor Tzipi Livni lost the subsequent election. So where is the opportunity that we missed?

If you had accepted Olmert’s offer early enough, it would have strengthened those who support the peace process. Instead, you now have to make do with Messrs. Netanyahu and Lieberman.

That’s right. We were in a race against time to reach a solution. But I wasn’t the one who thwarted an agreement. Olmert resigned from office shortly before the finish line.

Mr. President, the Palestinian camp is deeply divided. Your Fatah movement was unable to prevent Hamas’s violent takeover in the Gaza Strip in 2007. How do you intend to guarantee that the same thing won’t happen in the West Bank?

We have complete control over the security apparatus in the West Bank. The situation is 100 percent stabile. We will not allow the same thing to happen in the West Bank that happened in Gaza.

As long as Hamas controls Gaza, Israel will never agree to the establishment of a Palestinian state.

We spent two-and-a-half years conducting a dialogue sponsored by Egypt to seek reconciliation. It culminated in a document that we, representing Fatah, signed on Oct. 15, 2009. To this day, Hamas refuses to sign this document.

How can reconciliation be possible between the secular outlook of your Fatah movement and the Islamist worldview of Hamas?

We are a people with different religious and political sentiments. Some are extremely religious, some are strictly secular and others are moderate. But we have been accustomed to living together for the past 60 years. All of these movements exist within the PLO.

Would Marwan Barghuti, the hero of the second Intifada, who is imprisoned in Israel, be someone who could bring about reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas?

Marwan Barghuti is part of the leadership of Fatah. He is a member of the central committee of our movement. If he were released, it would be very advantageous for us. But not even Barghuti will be able to bring about reconciliation on his own. There is an external reason why Hamas isn’t signing the document.

You are referring to Iran.

That’s what you said.

Mr. President, you have announced that you will not run again for the office of president of the Autonomous Authority. Is this an admission that you will no longer be able to make the Palestinian dream of a sovereign state a reality?

That’s absolutely correct. The road to a political solution is blocked. For that reason, I see no purpose in remaining president of the Autonomous Authority. And I also have a warning for the world: Do not drive the Palestinians to the point of total hopelessness.

Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan.

 

Auf Wiedersehen, Uncle Sam?

Washington and Berlin are going through a painful breakup -- and this time, it may be permanent.

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The day before flying to Europe to bridge the deep chasm dividing the Old and New Worlds, President George W. Bush was asked to size up German-American relations.

His answer: “Almost the same as with France.”

Ouch.

Have we all really turned into Gaullists just three and a half years after becoming Americans on Sept. 11, 2001? Did German postwar foreign policy really take a decisive turn in the run-up to the war against Iraq? Why did the “Berlin Republic” decide to abandon the intermediary role Germany had traditionally played between its best friends, France and the United States, and side with Paris and against Washington? Does Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder’s Germany really garner part of its legitimacy from its rejection of an American crusade to create a democratic world, albeit one skewered on the end of a bayonet? And, finally, are we seeing the emergence of a new Europe that would resemble the old one vilified by Donald Rumsfeld — and in truth be much older still: the Carolingian Europe of the Middle Ages? A Europe that might consider itself a counterweight to American hegemony and, dare we say it, provoke, risk or even be yearning for the division of the West?

That’s what it boils down to. And the stakes are high. So high, in fact, that the thought alone prompts a rush of reassurance: the culprit, say the appeasers on this side of the Atlantic, is the president sitting in the White House, the Texas cowboy who pervasively polluted the atmosphere with his my-way-or-the-highway demands. Once he and his neoconservative buddies ride out of Washington, the sun will once again rise in the West.

Similar rumblings can be heard from the other side of the Atlantic: Richard Perle, for instance, the notorious neocon “prince of darkness,” recently called for “regime change” in Berlin. He expressed his confidence that “once Schroeder leaves the scene, Germany will revert to its accustomed friendliness.” The appeasers find nothing unusual in this: Despite the close ties, this is scarcely the first time the atmosphere between the two countries has been poisoned.

Venom has often been exchanged in the relationship between these two best friends.

Former Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, the architect of Germany’s integration with the West, spelled out just what he thought of John F. Kennedy in his no-holds-barred, Rhinish manner: absolutely nothing. A gullible young fool who had evidently been hoodwinked by the Russians. Adenauer’s successor, Ludwig Erhard, was mortified by a ranting Lyndon Johnson in the Oval Office in 1965. The Texan lambasted the Germans as ingrates who had refused to support their friends in Vietnam. Captured by White House bugs, much of what was discussed between Henry Kissinger and his boss Richard Nixon on Willy Brandt’s ostpolitik is not fit to be repeated. The most suitable statement for public consumption was Nixon’s cutting appraisal of the German chancellor: “If this is Germany’s hope, then Germany doesn’t have much hope.”

Former Chancellor Helmut Schmidt, the global economist and statesman supreme, dished out criticism the same way his predecessor had taken it. In Schmidt’s view, attempting to pin down his transatlantic partner Jimmy Carter, whom he considered — at best — a naive do-gooder, amounted to trying to “nail Jell-O to the wall.” Helmut Kohl alone appears to have fared well with three U.S. presidents: In 1985 he dragged the first of them, Ronald Reagan, around a war cemetery in Bitburg, something that may have actually represented the start of the “new German normality.” With George H.W. Bush, who later mused of making Germany “a partner in leadership,” he put together a deal that cemented German reunification. And with the third, the bon vivant Bill Clinton, he ate his way through mountains of Filomena’s fettuccine in Georgetown. Are the frictions between Berlin and Washington, which President George W. Bush’s recent charm offensive in Mainz failed to smooth, really nothing more than a temporary cloud that will pass when the next leaders emerge on the horizon?

Probably not.

It’s doubtful that things can ever be the way they were. A strange foreboding is creeping up on Germans as well as many Americans. A dawning that their nations’ “steadfast friendship” rested primarily on identical strategic interests during the Cold War and that the enthusiasm for the United States exuded by much of postwar Germany was offset by misgivings about the alleged excesses of the American dream.

Very slowly, the liberators and liberated of Nazi Germany, those protecting and protected from the Soviet threat, are remembering the words of former British Prime Minister Lord Palmerston, that nations don’t have friends, just interests.

At the moment, one might say that the two countries’ interests and their values are diverging. This is the only explanation for why hundreds of thousands of Germans cheered outside Berlin’s Schoeneberg City Hall in 1963 when Kennedy linked the freedom of the whole world to the freedom of that divided city, and why German intellectuals shuddered 41 years later when Bush used the word “freedom” 30 times in his landmark address on transatlantic relations.

But in a speech to the Munich Conference on Security Policy, which German Defense Minister Peter Struck delivered on behalf of the flu-stricken Schroeder, the word wasn’t offered once. Instead the speech referred to stability — or a lack thereof — no less than eight times. That alone was enough to convince American conservatives that the Germans have little interest in freedom and view continuity as the ultimate priority, even if it means cutting deals with ruthless tyrants. Americans believe that Ronald Reagan forced the Soviet Union to arm itself to death, thereby bringing it to its knees and bestowing freedom upon eastern Europe. Germans believe that Mikhail Gorbachev achieved this in a process they describe as “change through assimilation.”

As a result, Germans regard U.S. attempts to enrapture the world with democracy as naive at best, while Americans take a cynical view of Germany’s willingness to cooperate even with rivals. So there we are again: with that century-old clash between the American idealism of a president like Woodrow Wilson and a pragmatic European political rationale.

In truth, German perceptions of the United States have rarely been clear-cut. Usually they have fluctuated between the “extremes of admiration and contempt,” as Hans Gatzke, a specialist on the U.S., once wrote. The members of the first German National Assembly in 1848 viewed the United States as the “most progressive of countries.” The failure of this first German democratic movement unleashed an unprecedented wave of emigrants to American shores in the mid-19th century. Once they had landed, the immigrants developed divergent views. Some discovered the vaunted “land of unlimited opportunity.” Others wrote home about a cold, cruel and uncultured country.

Later that century, Bismarck’s Germany pursued social policies that were diametrically opposed to those of the robber-baron era in the U.S. This era — with its Rockefellers, Vanderbilts and their vast fortunes — etched the term “predatory capitalism” onto the German psyche. For Americans, even today, it was a “Golden Age.”

German ambivalence toward America’s growing industrial power took on a new significance at the end of World War I. President Wilson had promised “peace without victory,” and the Germans asked him to mediate a cease-fire. With the postwar years shaped by the harsh dictates of the Treaty of Versailles rather than by the League of Nations, however, Germany felt “betrayed” by America. Yet at the outset, even the Nazis were prepared to take a favorable view of the Americans. The party newspaper Voelkischer Beobachter interpreted Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s bold bid for power as an American version of the so-called Führer principle, expecting it to replace the ostensibly bankrupt democratic system in the U.S. as well. But as soon as these hopes evaporated, the Nazi propagandists began launching violent attacks on the “Jew-infested” and “uncultured” United States.

Any trace of anti-Americanism among Germany’s middle class vanished immediately after World War II. Given the conflict with the Soviet Union, the countries shared common security interests. The integration of West Germany into NATO, a goal pursued by Adenauer and driven by Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower, led to the unquestioning adoption of the American way of life in West Germany. The United States, the symbol of a progressive and democratic nation, became a surrogate fatherland.

But by the end of the 1960s, the honeymoon was basically over. So well had the West Germans learned their lessons about democracy and peace that they felt able and willing to tutor their own instructors. The intense criticism of the United States, above all at universities, zeroed in on the Vietnam War and the continued oppression of the African-American minority in many Southern states. The equally rumbustious debate on rearmament in the 1980s brought the image of a “dangerous America” into sharper focus within the West German left.

Many Germans viewed Ronald Reagan as an erratic politician who had nonchalantly branded the Soviet Union — so crucial to West Germany’s ostpolitik — as the “Evil Empire” and supported the use of military power far too liberally and far too casually. Much like his ideological heir, George W. Bush.

Both of these presidents stoked the fires of nationalism while espousing the optimism born of victory in both world wars. Such rhetoric set alarm bells ringing among many Germans, whom the Americans had taught to be leery of any charismatic leader appealing to nationalist instincts.

The major difference between the two presidents: During Reagan’s two terms, the Soviet Union — the real enemy — still existed. By the time the younger Bush entered the White House, Germany had already been reunited. The bulwark against the enemy in the east, in which West Germany had become America’s staunchest supporter, had disintegrated.

At the same time a process of cultural estrangement set in, and no one knows where it will lead. In one manifestation, critics from all parties frequently describe globalization as the “Americanization” of Germany. Signs of change can also be found in domestic politics. Proposed reforms of the German labor market routinely meet with the same response: “We don’t want the American system.”

Religion represents the deepest divide between the two partners. Like its neighbor France, Germany is a steadfastly secular state, while the United States is growing increasingly devout. The born-again Christian has become a powerful force in large parts of the Republican Party. In the U.S., no presidential address ends without an appeal to God to bless the country and its citizens. In Germany, Schroeder has steered a different course, becoming the first chancellor to drop the phrase “So help me God” from his oath of office.

Javier Solana, the EU’s foreign and security policy coordinator, has also noted the partners’ creeping cultural alienation. “Theirs is a bipolar system — all or nothing. We secular Europeans have a hard time dealing with that.”

The Los Angeles Times complained that Europeans had been given the choice of being “poodles or enemies.” In Bush’s own, downright biblical, words: “You’re either with us or against us.”

Faced with the dilemma, the Berlin Republic seems to have chosen the “German path.” When Schroeder was showing the American president around the chancellery in 2002, he spoke of “my White House.” His jest had a hidden dimension: Despite the pomp and circumstance of U.S. politics, the president’s seat of power is comparatively modest. In Berlin, the Germans have become a real force again.

It may have taken many Americans by surprise, but the new German assertiveness has deep roots. The recent debate on the thousands killed in Dresden and Hamburg during World War II has led many Germans — who witnessed the bombing of Baghdad live on television — to view themselves as particularly peaceful and the Americans as untowardly bellicose. Notwithstanding the fact that the two historical events scarcely bear comparison.

That the “normalization of Germany” is being pushed by a coalition of Social Democrats and Greens makes the country all the more suspect in Washington, even if this normality involves deploying German troops around the world. From Washington’s perspective, this European style of politics with its growing self-assurance could evolve into a threat. Even the Germanophilic Henry Kissinger has noted a growing “German dominance in Europe.”

For many Americans, including the pro-German political scientist Stephen Szabo and the far more reserved New York Times, an old issue is once again raising its hoary head: the “German question.” Which coalition of countries is capable of stopping that monolith in the middle of Europe from dictating the continent’s destiny? The current U.S. administration hardly shares such concerns. It haughtily points to its close ally’s economic anemia and, conscious of its own supremacy, considers Germany to be largely irrelevant. Bush’s comment in Mainz about the “great land in the heart of Europe” should not disguise this fact. There was no mention of the “partner in leadership” that his father invoked in 1989 during a visit to the same city.

Of course, countries can choose different paths without heading in opposite directions. The closely knit web of German-American business relations remained largely untouched by the crisis gripping the countries’ political elites. Even cooperation between police and intelligence officials in the war against terrorism seems to be improving. Germany and the United States still have common strategic interests, even if a new consensus has yet to be found. Berlin, just like Washington, seeks to halt the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Germany will have to assess if and when it should intervene in the domestic affairs of other countries — where, for example, the collapse of the rule of law has led to intolerable breaches of human rights. In Kosovo, Germany joined in the aerial warfare, despite the absence of a U.N. resolution.

Such a consensus can be found. The chaos in postwar Iraq has exacted a heavy toll on the U.S. hawks, deflating their much-publicized arrogance and breathing new life into the idea that even the United States needs allies.

In this context, one of Thomas Jefferson’s guiding principles is acquiring renewed meaning. While writing the Declaration of Independence, the third president, who was determined to extricate the new nation from Old World intrigues, insisted that the United States demonstrate “a decent respect to the Opinions of Mankind.”

This story has been reprinted from “The Germans,” an English-language special edition published by Der Spiegel and available at newsstands around the world.

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