"I can't tell you": MSNBC airs secret Rudy Giuliani tape that could be “devastating” for Fox News

A Trump campaign official in another recording admitted there was nothing wrong with the voting machines

By Igor Derysh

Managing Editor

Published April 13, 2023 11:30AM (EDT)

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (Michael M. Santiago/Getty Images)
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (Michael M. Santiago/Getty Images)

A former Fox News producer on Tuesday claimed to have secret recordings of Rudy Giuliani and other Trump allies admitting they had no evidence to back up their false claims about Dominion Voting Systems. MSNBC aired the tapes on Tuesday night after receiving the audio from the producer's attorney.

Former Fox News producer Abby Grossberg, who worked for Tucker Carlson and Maria Bartiromo, sued the company for harassment and discrimination, accusing the network of coercing her to falsely testify in Dominion's $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit. Grossberg in a Tuesday filing claimed that Fox News failed to disclose evidence to Dominion, including recordings she made of Giuliani, former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell and Trump campaign officials admitting they had no proof of their claims.

The judge overseeing the case on Wednesday scolded Fox News for withholding evidence in discovery after Dominion lawyers played some of the recordings in court. Judge Eric Davis said he would likely appoint a "special master" to investigate the matter.

"As counsel explained to the Court, Fox produced the supplemental information from Ms. Grossberg when we first learned it," a Fox News spokesperson said in a statement.

MSNBC's Alex Wagner aired the tapes on Tuesday night after receiving them from Grossberg's attorney.

The first tape includes Giuliani admitting to host Maria Bartiromo ahead of an interview days after the election that he didn't have evidence of the false TrumpWorld claim that Dominion rigged the election.

Giuliani claimed he could tell Bartiromo "exactly" what evidence the campaign had but the Dominion evidence was a "little harder."

"It's being analyzed right now. I mean, there are a couple of races that have been reversed because the Democrat was triple-counted, two already in Michigan. Now, whether that applies for the whole state or not, I can't tell you yet," Giuliani said.

"This Dominion software, does Nancy Pelosi have an interest in it?" Bartiromo asked.

"I've read that. I can't prove that," Giuliani acknowledged.

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Wagner also played another recording of a Trump campaign official asking to go off the record to admit there did not appear to be anything wrong with the voting machines in Georgia.

"I think they have looked at the machines. When the secretary of state did its audit, there was a lot, I think a fair bit of looking at the machines," the campaign official said. "The audit came in pretty darn close to what the machine count was with the receipts. So, I don't know the outcome of those, but our understanding—again, this is from the secretary of state's office—was that there weren't any physical issues with machines on those inspections."

The official later noted that January 6 would be an important date.

"That's the whole reason why I wanted to chat with you two just to understand where the real backstops are here," he said. "And if both sets of electors are set up, that would be the moment when the vice president—who's the president of the Senate—would have to decide which slate of electors to go with."

A spokesperson for Fox said that Fox has "complied with its discovery obligations in the Dominion case."

But former federal prosecutor John Kaley on Wednesday warned that the tapes "could have a devastating impact on Fox's defense."

Kaley told Salon the records could "potentially undermine it entirely and subject Fox and others with knowledge to sanctions and even potential criminal exposure if false statements and representations were made knowingly under oath or in court."

By Igor Derysh

Igor Derysh is Salon's managing editor. His work has also appeared in the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, Boston Herald and Baltimore Sun.

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Aggregate Dominion Voting Systems Donald Trump Fox News Politics Rudy Giuliani