Football
Kurt Warner, Hall of Famer?
In the wake of his third fine Super Bowl performance, the readers write about that and other big-game subjects.
A good conversation in the letters section of this column’s Super Bowl piece Monday. The main recurring topic was Kurt Warner’s Hall of Fame qualifications, though there were others.
Let’s dig in, shall we?
Big Paulie: Were the two TD drives by the Cardinals in the 4th Quarter enough to cement Kurt Warner as a Hall of Fame QB, in spite of the fact that they lost?
Up till that point, I’d say he had lost some of his HOF luster. But after the last score, he was looking like he belongs.
The Brad: Whether Warner deserves enshrinement … Should not be decided by two drives in a Super Bowl.
King Kaufman: I’ve got to go with The Brad on this one. Sure, playoff and Super Bowl performances should carry some extra weight, but come on. A guy’s qualified or not for the Hall of Fame based on how a couple of drives went? It’s a career honor.
dhadbawnik: Warner for the HOF? Why not. He’s done everything humanly possible in the three Super Bowls he’s played in. All three have been classics. I say let him in.
mdlewis: I’m not sure even with this game Kurt Warner would have been a Hall of Fame quarterback. He has had flashes of brilliance, but really only three good-to-great seasons, four if you count one that could have been great had he not been injured. Otherwise his career has been riddled with injuries and mediocre play. Great story that should be honored somehow. Not Hall of Fame.
bukk63: As for Warner in the HOF, I mean, seriously? I know there was talk of that in the buildup to this Super Bowl, but wasn’t it all just feel-good claptrap? The guy has had a few amazing seasons and has a striking story, but he’s mixed it up with some real dogs. Even if the Cards had won, he hasn’t had a HOF career. Too much chaff with the wheat, as his type would say.
King Kaufman: What’s his type?
h_lance: Take a look at Warner’s lifetime stats. Despite a late start to his NFL career and injuries, he’s in the top five on almost every possible measure of passing quality. He’s been deep in the postseason plenty of times.
King Kaufman I would love to see a comparison of Warner to other Hall of Fame quarterbacks, but adjusted for era. It doesn’t mean anything that Warner’s raw stats — even rate stats, like completion percentage — blow, say, Terry Bradshaw’s out of the water. Warner and Bradshaw were practically playing a different sport.
I think comparing the NFL of the 2000s to the NFL of the 1970s is like comparing major league baseball of the 2000s with about the 1920s, maybe even the teens. The changes in philosophy, rules and the physical makeup of the players have been that profound. Adjustments have to be made.
Here’s an interesting conversation that the boys of Football Outsiders had on the subject of Warner and the Hall of Fame, though it took place in early October, before it was clear Warner was adding another year to his small collection of great ones.
h_lance: If you deny Warner, you’ll have a hard time making a case for a lot of other QBs.
King Kaufman Yes, but that’s how it should be.
mdlewis: Can someone explain the fumble at the end to me? We were all screaming at the screen that it was an incomplete pass.
King Kaufman The ruling, which I think was correct, was that the ball was knocked out of Warner’s hand before his arm started moving forward. It was still in contact with his hand, which is why it came out forward, but he didn’t have control of it.
I think this is a bad rule. It’s one of the NFL’s overly fine gradations that calls for way too much judgment by the refs. It should be simple: If the ball moves forward, it’s an incomplete pass. If it moves backward or laterally, it’s a fumble. Period. No tuck rule, no nothing. Just the direction of the ball.
mdlewis: I’m still shocked Arizona didn’t challenge.
King Kaufman Can’t challenge in the last two minutes. It’s up to the replay official in the booth.
FilthyHarry: There was a booth review [of Warner's fumble]. It happened real quick but Al Michaels announced that the call came from upstairs that the play stood as called on the field.
King Kaufman: The league has since said as much. It was the fastest review in NFL history! So why can’t they all be that fast, at least when the answer is obvious, as it often is? Even when it’s clear what the correct call should be on the first viewing of a replay on TV — that first viewing, spotted in the press box, is often the reason the red flag gets thrown in the first place — the review takes at least three minutes and usually more like six.
bchiger: How can you write a recap without mentioning the most egregious bad calls of the game?
King Kaufman: You could say this about every NFL game. I don’t agree with your assessments of which calls were egregious, which I’m not repeating here, but aside from that, somewhat random officiating is just a fact of life in the NFL. I don’t think it decided this game.
smcgrot: Lots of people (KK included) seem to believe that the NFL is a band of crooks in bed with the betting industry. To not even review the most important play of the night does little to dispel that impression.
King Kaufman: I do not believe that, though I do believe that in the wake of the NBA officiating scandal the NFL, like all sports leagues, should be concerned about appearances and perceptions. As noted, though, the play was allegedly reviewed.
King Kaufman is a senior writer for Salon. You can e-mail him at king at salon dot com. Facebook / Twitter / Tumblr More King Kaufman.
Can Tebow find salvation?
Updated: After losing his job in Denver, evangelicals' favorite jock faces an uncertain future in New York.
Tim Tebow (Credit: Reuters/Rick WIlking) [UPDATED BELOW]
You don’t need to be an evangelical Christian to care about the future of Tim Tebow. I’m a lapsed atheist myself. But with the resurrection of quarterback Peyton Manning in Denver, I wonder most about the future of the spiritual scrambler, who led the Broncos to the playoffs last year.
The Broncos signing Manning to replace Tebow is a no-brainer. He may be diminished by age and injury, but he is also the best quarterback of our time, not because he is a brilliant coach’s puppet (Tom Brady) or an on-field, off-field brute (Ben Roethlisberger) but by virtue of a fierce work ethic and a concentrated intelligence that is contagious and inspirational. Whatever is left at age 35 of him will make the Broncos better.
Continue Reading CloseRobert Lipsyte is a former New York Times sports columnist. His new memoir, "An Accidental Sportswriter," has just been published. More Robert Lipsyte.
The Super Bowl is not a job creator
Despite what civic boosters say, hosting the big game provides few long-term benefits
(Credit: AP/Michael Conroy) Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the National Football League, argued on “60 Minutes” last Sunday that the NFL is one professional organization designed to appeal to the economic interests of the little guy: Its revenue-sharing model, he said, gives a fighting chance to squads from Green Bay and Buffalo as well as to those from large media markets like New York, Los Angeles and Boston.
On the eve of the Super Bowl, Goodell was touting the familiar idea that the sport’s biggest game is a boon to economic development. But with the cost of a ticket now averaging $3,982 and 30-second television spots selling for $3.5 million, the Super Bowl can appear to be more an occasion for ostentatious excess than an engine of development.
Continue Reading CloseAlexander Heffner is a freelance journalist whose writing has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, and Boston Globe. More Alexander Heffner.
Political lessons from this year’s Super Bowl
From jobs to health care, football's big game illustrates the factors that will dominate the 2012 election
New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady (Credit: AP Photo/Elise Amendola) Most Americans won’t need a justification to watch Sunday’s game, but if you’re a Salon reader you might think, even in passing, that celebrating the holiest day of violence, consumerism and class warfare on your couch is a betrayal of your values or a waste of your time. You might even imagine that it would be better to take a hike, read a book or meditate.
Not this Sunday, buster. It’s an election season. You need to watch this game to fully understand how jobs, religion, leadership and healthcare dominate every American contest.
Continue Reading CloseRobert Lipsyte is a former New York Times sports columnist. His new memoir, "An Accidental Sportswriter," has just been published. More Robert Lipsyte.
Enjoy the game? For the true fan, it’s all about agony
The New York Giants are in the Super Bowl. But for one obsessive, the question is what time to take the Ativan
Ohio State football fans (Credit: AP) “The truth is,” Nick Hornby wrote in “Fever Pitch,” his book about his obsession with Arsenal and British football, “for alarmingly large chunks of an average day, I am a moron.”
That’s a wonderful sentence by one of my favorite writers, but if Hornby is only a moron for only large chunks of the average day, he is doing a lot better than I am. I can honestly report that for the last few months I have been an absolute idiot for all but very small portions of the day.
Continue Reading CloseTed Heller's latest novel, "Pocket Kings," will be published in March. He is also the author of the novels "Slab Rat" and "Funnymen." More Ted Heller.
Small blunders kill Super Bowl dreams
For fans of the 49ers and Ravens, the road to the big game is paved with pain
Kyle Williams loses it Just when it looked like the NFC and AFC championship games were going to last until the Super Bowl, two fatal blunders brought them to an abrupt close. The stunning conclusions to two of the most tense, evenly matched conference championship games in recent memory were a painful reminder that although football is a team game, one miscue by a single player can wipe out thousands of hours of collective blood, sweat and tears.
It will be a sad and lonely night for Baltimore Ravens’ kicker Billy Cundiff, whose shanked chip-shot 32-yarder gave the AFC championship to the New England Patriots. Kickers must have strong mental constitutions: in a sport where bonds between teammates are cemented in blood and pain, they are not always regarded as full-fledged comrades to begin with, and so when they screw up, it’s even harder for them to deal with. The mantra “short memory,” which defensive backs are constantly shouting at each other, applies in spades to kickers. Cundiff could use a tall glass of Milk of Amnesia.
Continue Reading CloseGary Kamiya is a Salon contributing writer. More Gary Kamiya.
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