Caitlin Shamberg

What Joe Jackson knows about Michael

Joe Jackson appeared on "Larry King Live" to talk about his grandchildren and his (bad) relationship with his son

Larry King  interviewed  Joe Jackson last night, and it took several strange turns.  (Read the whole transcript on CNN).  Jackson and his son, Michael,  were clearly estranged (Joe admits he was barred from his son’s home) and as King probed into their relationship the conversation veered into a weird territory.  Here’s an early exchange:

KING: Where is — where is Michael’s body?

JACKSON: I don’t know. You’d have to ask somebody that knows. I don’t know. All I know is that…

KING: You’re the father.

Later, King, having established that the father and son didn’t have anything to do with eachother, pushed Joe Jackson on whether he was an abusive father.

JACKSON: Let me handle this. The media keep hollering about saying that I beat Michael. That’s not true. You know what this beat started — beat started in the slavery days. Where they used to beat the slaves and then they used to torture them.

That’s where these beating started. These slave masters, and that’s where that come from. But, hey, there’s a lot of people in America, Larry, a lot of people in America spank their kids, you know? They say they don’t, they’re lying. They’re lying.

Now, Michael was never beaten by me, I’ve never beaten at all.

KING: Ok, you’re on record.

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Obama talks personal responsibility to NAACP

The nation's first black president addresses one of the organizations that made it possible

If, somewhere, there’s a rating system for coincidences — a scale ranging from the ordinary to the almost miraculous — then the one that played out when President Obama spoke to the NAACP on on Thursday night has to rank pretty high. That the first black man to be elected president of the United States could speak to the NAACP ‘s annual convention was miracle enough, of course. But this convention also just happened to mark the great civil rights organization’s centennial.

Obama, obviously, went out of his way to recognize the milestone, and to acknowledge the role the NAACP had played in his election.

“What we celebrate tonight is not simply the journey the NAACP has traveled, but the journey that we, as Americans, have traveled over the past one hundred years,” the president said at the beginning of his address, according to his prepared remarks.

Speaking of civil rights leaders and workers from the NAACP, Obama continued, “Because of what they did, we are a more perfect union. Because Jim Crow laws were overturned, black CEOs today run Fortune 500 companies. Because civil rights laws were passed, black mayors, governors, and Members of Congress serve in places where they might once have been unable to vote. And because ordinary people made the civil rights movement their own, I made a trip to Springfield a couple years ago — where Lincoln once lived, and race riots once raged — and began the journey that has led me here tonight as the 44th President of the United States of America.”

But Obama’s speech wasn’t all about accomplishments — it was largely about the work that remains to be done for bringing about full equality in the U.S. The president kept to a familiar message on this front; his speeches to the black community have always focused on personal responsibility, and Thursday night was no different.

“All these innovative programs and expanded opportunities will not, in and of themselves, make a difference if each of us, as parents and as community leaders, fail to do our part by encouraging excellence in our children,” Obama said. “Government programs alone won’t get our children to the Promised Land. We need a new mindset, a new set of attitudes — because one of the most durable and destructive legacies of discrimination is the way that we have internalized a sense of limitation; how so many in our community have come to expect so little of ourselves.

“We have to say to our children, Yes, if you’re African American, the odds of growing up amid crime and gangs are higher. Yes, if you live in a poor neighborhood, you will face challenges that someone in a wealthy suburb does not. But that’s not a reason to get bad grades, that’s not a reason to cut class, that’s not a reason to give up on your education and drop out of school. No one has written your destiny for you. Your destiny is in your hands — and don’t you forget that.”

This kind of speech from Obama has always played better in the national media than it has with leaders in the black community — witness, for example, Jesse Jackson caught on a hot mic last summer saying he wanted to “cut [Obama's] nuts off” and that Obama “talked down” to black people. But the reaction in the room this time around was positive, and afterwards, NAACP leaders who spoke to reporters also had good things to say, though they did spin the speech a little.

“He seemed to me to be saying that you don’t get anywhere unless you put some effort into it,” Julian Bond, the chair of the group’s board of directors, said. (Video below.) “You can’t expect it to happen just because you want it to happen, you have to do something about it. The NAACP is one of the groups that does something about it, did something about it and is gonna do something about it.”

Below, Salon video of Bond and NAACP President Benjamin Jealous responding to Obama, and video of the president’s speech.

 

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“I’ve spent the last five days crying in Argentina”

Gov. Sanford admits his affair -- and we have just the musical accompaniment

During Mark Sanford’s strange, addled press conference Wednesday, he explained his sudden disappearance from South Carolina by admitting he hadn’t been hiking the Appalachian Trail after all but had instead been much further South visiting with a “special friend,” i.e., cheating on his wife. In fact, he made reference to having “spent the last five days crying in Argentina.” Was the wayward Governor really unaware that he had lapsed into showtunes? Did he mean to quote Evita? Because he had every right — the overlap between his own emotional turmoil and that of the imagined Mrs. Peron is uncanny. Just read the lyrics to “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina”: “I had to change/I chose freedom/Running around, trying everything new.” Better yet, pay homage as Broadway diva Patti Lupone sings them, below. (But first, listen to the inimitable Charlotte Greenwood “Sing to Your Senorita,” from the musical “Down Argentine Way”!)

 

The dark side of the moon

Sam Rockwell and Duncan Jones talk about their new space movie and the pleasures of 1970s science fiction films.

Sam Rockwell

Today’s science fiction usually features big stars, big budgets and big explosions, but a small independent film with only one star has found a place in the summer release schedule. “Moon,” starring Sam Rockwell, is a quiet study in loneliness and isolation, revolving around the idea that an astronaut is just a working man stuck on the moon.

First-time director Duncan Jones (who happens to be the son of “Starman” David Bowie) says he wanted to make a movie like “Alien” or “Silent Running” — films he couldn’t get enough of when he was a kid. His vision for space is not the slick shiny world of the future, but a gritty industrial park. The spaceship is a messy lived-in space; worn out photographs are tacked to the wall, and the bed is unmade. This is where we find Sam Bell (Rockwell), a blue-collar mechanic who runs the space station and mines helium-3. He spends his days driving around the moon in a clunky vehicle gathering canisters of refined He-3 back to launch back to Earth. His only companion is an unsophisticated-looking robot named Gerty (voiced by Kevin Spacey). Despite the obvious HAL comparisons, we learn very early on that Gerty is devoid of human emotion, existing solely to serve Sam.

Sam’s three-year contract is up, and he is getting ready to go back to Earth, where his wife and young daughter live. But instead of going home, he begins to fall apart. When he is rescued by a newer version of himself — a clone — things really get strange. Suddenly there’s Sam 1, Sam 2 (a hotheaded version of Sam 1) and Gerty vying for space on the ship. It’s a good role for Rockwell, who plays off what he calls this “extraordinary circumstance” with humor and humility. He brings a realism to the relationship between the clones as they evolve from barely tolerating each other to forming a tender connection.

Salon talked to Jones and Rockwell in New York about making a science fiction movie that brings back the geeky thrill of seeing outer space for the first time.

Your choice to de-romanticize the astronaut really came across. I responded to this idea that he’s kind of a regular dude, like a car mechanic.

Duncan Jones: That was actually one of [Sam’s] initial ideas … that we try and do a blue-collar character. I think the main reason for that was that the science fiction films we were both excited about growing up … “Outland” and “Alien” — they really do have these blue-collar characters.

Sam Rockwell: I think a lot of times in horror movies or science fiction movies, they cast these very attractive people and they’re up in space. And I think movies like “Alien,” they have these character actors like Harry Dean Stanton and Yaphet Kotto, and there was a kind of Cassavetes realism to it. The same thing with “John Carpenter’s the Thing” or “Silent Running” or “Outland,” there was this kind of blue-collar element to it, which I think pulls you in immediately to the reality, so when the monster arrives you go with it a little easier.

Talk about the two versions of Sam in the film.

SR: Well they’re really the same person — the only difference is the three years on the moon. The argument that we’re making is that your environment can change you. Three years on the moon by yourself is maybe the equivalent of three years in isolation in prison or a prison camp or something. It’s a little different — you get Ping-Pong and a robot, and you don’t get raped in the shower — but I think he goes a little Robinson Crusoe crazy. And I think he learns about himself up there. So he’s a humbler, sweeter, more sensitive man than his original self because that experience has changed him a little bit.

At first I thought they were going to try to kill each other, but that seemed too easy. They almost become brothers up there.

DJ: Absolutely. “Brothers” is a good way to put it. Even though they are clones, their experience has made them into two very separate characters. I think the genius of what Sam did is that he found what made those two guys different and then found ways to really bring the conflict in between the two of them. And we did it in a way where it wasn’t good guy, bad guy. It was just two guys who had different agendas and were in different stages in their lives. One was still kind of young and aggressive and angry, and the other one had spent a lot of time on his own and had come to understand what his own faults were and had tried to work on them.

And he’s named Sam.

DJ: Well, I did that on purpose. The film was written for Sam, but I kept the name Sam because it’s all about cloning and it’s all about the awkwardness of having to deal with yourself. And the most obvious way for me to make Sam go through that was to call the character Sam.

Can you talk about the technical aspects of filming “Moon”?

SR: The set was really amazing. It was kind of like you were on a space station. I mean the whole thing was closed off — the fourth wall was there, it was four walls, so it wasn’t like a set. It was kind of like going on location. We felt like we were in this little space station. It was in Shepperton [Studios] where they shot “Alien” and “Star Wars,” so there was this lineage there.

 Duncan, your father is David Bowie, and I did go into this film thinking about “The Man Who Fell to Earth.” Your film is quite a different take on space, but … was there something going on in your house?

DJ: Why we’re all obsessed with not being on Earth? No, I’m a product of my upbringing, so I was surrounded by the things that interested my dad at the time, whether that’s films he was watching or music he was listening to or playing. I can’t avoid the fact that that had an effect on making me the person I am. That idea of experience making you who you are is very much what “Moon” is about. But no, I don’t know if we have a genetic disposition to making us want to talk about space. I think there’s something interesting about science fiction in general — that when you do a human story, and you put it in a science fiction setting, you actually see the person a lot more clearly because the environment is so alien. Anything subtle about the human being really stands out, and the thing that makes them human and the things that are natural about them really stick out in this alien environment, this unusual environment.

Why didn’t you show Earth in the film?

DJ: Initially it was budgetary, because we wanted to maintain all of our shoot within our soundstage, but as the film progressed, I got advice from other people. I have some friends who are writers, and they were saying, wow, you should show the epilogue, show what happens when he gets back. We started playing around with it and writing some scenes and talking about it. And we even shot a little segment, but as soon as we put it in the edit it seemed so wrong, because it immediately broke the intimacy of the film that we made. It really just felt bolted on to the end. It didn’t seem appropriate.

What were the challenges of working with the robot?

SR: Well I didn’t work with Kevin [Spacey], because he signed on after the movie was made. The script supervisor would read Gerty’s lines.

That sounds challenging, since Gerty has a specific persona.

SR: I knew what the voice represented. I knew that we talked about the different relationships. The first clone, Sam 1, had been up there with Gerty for three years, so it had become his friend and a mother, and there was so much transference with that robot and the first clone. But the second clone is new to Gerty, and Gerty is new to him, so we talked about making that relationship more like a butler or a servant, so the second clone dismissed him and didn’t treat him as well.

Obviously, this film is sort of a throwback, but do you think it adds to the science fiction genre in any way?

DJ: I think it moves the genre today in a different direction. If it had come out in the late ’70s or early ’80s, hopefully it would have fit right in there with the films that were coming out. I think TV is almost ahead of film right now as far as science fiction goes. They’re telling much more interesting human stories than films have been up until now. But it does seem that there is a new wave of science fiction on the horizon of slightly smarter, more human-centric science fiction. Hopefully, we’re one of the first of this new wave of films.

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Isn’t the torture debate over?

The president is speaking; the former vice president should listen.

It’s unfortunate that President Obama is being pitted against the former vice president as if there’s a country-wide debate raging between them.

Earlier today, Dick Cheney in a televised speech tried to convince America that enhanced interrogation methods keep us safe and that our current President is leading us off course. But Obama spoke first and he spoke louder — he is, after all, the one setting the nation’s policy right now.

If you missed it, here’s a bit from the two speeches, side by side:

“The Real World’s” Ryan speaks

As he prepares to return to Iraq, the MTV reality show star discusses how it feels to be redeployed -- and to learn about it on camera.

It’s hard to take reality TV seriously, especially the granddaddy of them all, MTV’s “The Real World,” which pulls together an attractive crew of 20-somethings cast to clash in pretty predictable ways. But the show’s 21st season, “The Real World: Brooklyn” (which has its finale Wednesday night), surprised us. Set in a tricked-out loft overlooking a glistening Red Hook waterfront, it wasn’t the expected cast members — newly transgendered Katelynn, kooky Mormon Chet, sexual-abuse survivor Sarah — who drew our attention. It was Ryan Conklin, the charmingly hammy 23-year-old Iraq war veteran. Conklin seemed to fill the role of the sheltered, small-town guy who would bristle at his roommates’s differences and show flashes of intolerance, before ultimately learning to be a better person. It’s a tried-and-true reality show narrative. But while Conklin did provide a few early awkward moments (befuddled by Katelynn, who had not yet explained her gender status, he referred to her once as “it”) he proved the warmest presence on the show: a good guy eager to absorb all New York has to offer, entertain his roommates with spoofy songs on his guitar, and go to school to study film. Until, that is, he got a fateful call.

Late in the series (when it was shot in mid-November), we see Conklin talking on the phone with his brother, who grimly informs him that “you got the packet in the mail that you’ve been dreading.”  His brother tells him that he’s been called back to Iraq through the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR), a program that allows the Army to recall soldiers who have completed their tours of duty. Conklin goes through a rapid succession of denial — “Don’t mess with me,” he says, convincing himself his brother is lying to him — and frustration, before crumpling into tears to a roommate. “I don’t want to put my parents through that again,” he says, his voice fading to a whisper. It’s a soul-crushing scene, far more real than we’re prepared to expect from television.

Conklin enlisted in the Army at age 17 after the events of Sept. 11, 2001. Although he tries at first to keep quiet about his service (“I wanted them to get to know me for me,” he says), the MTV series skillfully reveals him as a young man dedicated to his country.  He’s also opposed to the war, and the series films him becoming involved with the activist group Iraq Veterans Against the War.  Not long after we see Conklin celebrating the election of Barack Obama, who he — and so many others — hopes might be able to bring the war to a quick end,  he learns he’s been called back into service.

Conklin, who reported for duty in late February, now expects to spend the next year as part of an infantry division. Salon reached him Tuesday by phone, where he spoke about the reaction to the show he’s received from fellow soldiers — and the Army — and his own morale as he prepares to redeploy. (You can listen to the interview here.)

Do your fellow infantrymen recognize you? Do they have a reaction to the show?

Some do, and some don’t have a clue and that’s totally cool. Kind of back when I first started in the “Real World” house I didn’t want to tell anybody that I was in the Army because I wanted them to get to know me for me. It’s kind of the opposite here. I don’t tell anyone I was on a TV show because I want them to get to know me for me as a soldier. And the ones that do recognize me, which is weird because I have a haircut and I’m in a uniform like them … they don’t really give me any crap. There’s questions, obviously; the common question is, “What was it like living with a tranny,” stuff like that. Or [having] the cameras always around. I know that I’d be inquisitive myself if someone from “The Real World” was in my platoon. So it’s funny, it’s cool. It’s all right.

On the show you were frank in your opposition to the war, especially the “backdoor draft” [referring to the military's stop-loss program]. Did you get any push-back from the Army in regards to that?

No, I’m pretty frank with things; the Army never stepped in to say don’t say this or don’t say that. I wouldn’t care if they did anyways, because I really don’t care if my mouth gets me in trouble or anything. If it needs to be said I’ll say it. But no, I haven’t really run into any censorship, if you will, from them.

Last week, there was an announcement from Defense Secretary Robert Gates that they are phasing out stop-loss, with Gates blaming it for “breaking faith” with the troops — and that it will be phased out by 50 percent next year. Did you hear that?

That’s good. “Breaking faith” with the Army, that’s funny, that this many years with the stop-loss policy they start getting rid of that. It only took them several years and the high suicide rates to catch on to that, but that’s one good step that they’re doing. I was stop-lossed last time I was deployed, and held past my time.

You talked on the show about being interested in film. Were there any opportunities that arose after being on the show that are now on hold?

A lot of opportunities did come up. I’ve met a lot of people and there are a lot of avenues that I want to approach and get into. I’m going to continue talking to people. Obviously there’s work with the IAVA and veterans organizations that I want to get into. Film, I plan on going back into, majoring in it. That’s my passion and I can see myself doing that as long as I’m alive, I guess. Music obviously is always still there; that’s more of a hobby than a passion. I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything right now. It’s giving me time to think about things, organize things, and tackle them when I get home.

What did you learn from the “Real World” that you actually can bring to the real world?

To be more open-minded. I guess coming in from a small town and only having the Army experience behind me, which was like living in a fraternity house … I learned to be more open-minded with  different things. Whether I accepted them or not, at least I was open enough to experience them. Things with everybody in the house that I got involved with. Art with Sarah, music or interviews with Chet or hearing about the life choices of being a transsexual with Katelynn or the homosexual community with J.D. I never wanted to say no to anything, because it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity … I wanted to take advantage of everything. That’s one good thing to have in life is to be open to anything and everything. That’s what makes life cool.

Is there anything you learned from being in the military that  helped you when you were in the house?

I would say it taught me to be a lot stronger than I am and not  just in a physical way, but emotional. Being able to deal with things that are out of your grasp. Things that are real. Big  situations that you get into. Being able to deal with stress and changes to the point that it doesn’t get you down, doesn’t ruin things, keeps you levelheaded, thinking straight.

Did you disagree with the way anything was portrayed on the show?

The scene where I lash out at J.D. … yeah it went down, yeah I  yelled at him for that situation. They didn’t really show me laughing my ass off after that with Chet. We made a whole joke about it, and they didn’t really show us joking before or after, they just showed me yelling. And then they used a clip of J.D. saying, “I think he has [post-traumatic stress disorder]” and Scott saying maybe he heard bombs in Iraq. And as the viewer, the way they see it is Ryan has a severe case of PTSD and he screams a lot. That was one thing about the show that got me when I watched the  episode –  people are going to think I’m crazy. And that’s not it at all, that situation didn’t really happen like that whatsoever. At the end of the day it’s a TV show, so everything is edited in a certain way. That’s really the only bumpy spot I saw on the show.

What was it like to watch the episode where you learn you’re  going back to Iraq? 

It was kind of like I was watching someone else. I was kind of in a fog when I got that call. I wanted my brother to be joking so bad.  Watching the episode, I’m like, damn, I don’t even remember half of  this conversation, I don’t remember cracking my knuckles, it felt like watching somebody else.

Do you know where you’re going and for how long?

It’s going to be Iraq. I think we should be somewhere in southeast Baghdad, from the rumor wheel that’s going around right now. We should be leaving April 15 or 16 out of Fort Bragg, N.C. I think it’s going to be a year deployment or 10 months. I’m not sure. For being called up in the IRR they can hold us no longer than 400 days according to the orders.  I wouldn’t be surprised if the Army wizard waved a magic wand and kept us in, but it should be no more than March 15, 2010, and then my eight-year contract ends — June 2010 and I can never be called back. So somewhere around there I’ll be pretty happy.

And will you stay in touch with your roommates when you’re over there?

Best I can. Family first, roommates and friends second. Some of my roommates I’m really close with. I’m always talking with Baya, Chet  and Scott. So those guys are my family anyway, so I’ll keep in touch.

Will you do video from Iraq?

Yeah, I’m trying to set up a Web site now that follows my trip , a place where I can post stuff.

As you do these media interviews, has anyone in the Army told you to be careful what you talk about?

No. I’ve gotten a call from the higher-ups who are kind of in control of media outlets in the Army. They ask how my morale is. I guess that’s what’s important to them.

How is your morale?

Oh, it’s OK, I’ve seen better days. But everything happens for a reason.

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