The Age of Trump is not accidental. Project 2025, Trump’s own Agenda 47, and the other plans to make him a dictator on “day one” of his presidency to end multiracial pluralistic democracy are part of a much older and larger project. For decades, the American right has been developing a revolutionary campaign to radically transform American society to make it less democratic and to further concentrate power in the hands of a relatively small number of rich white “Christian” men. 

At its core, democracy means the ability of citizens to exercise effective political agency and power in their society. Today’s Republicans and so-called conservatives fundamentally reject that principle. They want to return the United States to the Gilded Age — if not before — as they transform the country into a new apartheid Christofascist plutocracy.

The American (and global) right’s revolutionary project to end multiracial pluralistic democracy involves taking over not just the political realm but every aspect of society from culture to technology to the economy and education. The right-wing and its neofascists and other authoritarians know that by controlling the country’s educational system they can create compliant citizens who will be drones, trained to obey and not to practice critical thinking or otherwise resist the powerful. The struggle for America’s future and its democracy is taking place in America’s classrooms today.

Jason Stanley is the Jacob Urowsky Professor of Philosophy at Yale University and the author of "Erasing History: How Fascists Change the Past to Control the Future." In this conversation, he explains the role that education plays in a democratic community and how colleges and universities can better defend themselves against attacks by the Trumpists, neofascists, "conservatives," and other enemies of democracy and freedom. The myth of “liberal higher education,” Stanley notes, is belied by the fact that neofascists such as Ohio Sen. JD Vance and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis attended some of the country’s most elite universities yet are now working to undermine and delegitimate such institutions. Stanley also reflects on how the right-wing has weaponized such concepts as DEI and free speech in their campaign against education and democracy.

Stanley has a warning for liberals and progressives: Do not fall into the trap of being useful idiots by engaging in political debate with intellectually dishonest people during this time of ascendant fascism.

How are you feeling? How are you making sense of where we are in the story that is the Age of Trump now that Kamala Harris is the Democratic Party nominee? 

This is an existential election. It is even more so than in 2020 because Trump has surrounded himself with a group of advisors and policymakers who are very serious about ending democracy. With Project 2025, Trump's own Agenda 47, and other plans, they are ready from day one of his regime to move to authoritarianism. It's “all hands on deck” right now. There is really no excuse for not being involved in this election. The choice between Harris and Trump is the most important election in the world right now. 

Joy is not a strategy. That having been said, joy and hope can help to power the Democrats and the larger pro-democracy movement to victory over Trump and the other neofascists. I am worried that too many people are too happy much too soon because Harris is the nominee which means they may not be willing to do the hard work now to defeat Trumpism. Given their premature exuberance, they may be brought crashing down to earth once the reality of how close the election is going to be finally sets in. If Trump wins it may break them psychologically and emotionally. This is a war, not a battle; it will likely last decades. That is the approach that is necessary for the pro-democracy movement. Help me balance my pessimism and optimism. 

It’s nice to feel a little joy and to not run an election solely on the fear that the opposition will win, in this case, Trump and the MAGA Republicans and the other anti-democratic forces. I think it's motivating. We need to do two things simultaneously. We need to give people hope, and we need to warn them of the dangers. I like the focus on freedom from the Democrats. Authoritarianism requires a culture of fear, and that's why the fascists erase history and are targeting our schools and educational programs and harassing teachers. We need to counter that atmosphere of fear and intimidation with one of joy and hope — and we must do it very quickly because we are running out of time. 

The Democratic National Convention was a type of pedagogical event. The Obamas for example, really did some powerful public teaching about democracy and competing visions of freedom. This is going to be the theme from Kamala Harris and the Democrats going forward. The American people are experiencing a national “teachable moment” about democratic theory. I worry that many of them are not able to appreciate or apply properly. 

The Democrats are running the election on a classic philosophical topic, which is the difference between negative and positive freedom. Freedom "from" versus freedom "to". So, as Obama said in his speech, the billionaire class thinks of freedom as freedom from taxes and freedom from regulation. Freedom to or positive liberty is the freedom a person will have if they are free to pursue their life goals without obstacles. It is not possible for people to pursue their life goals if they are burdened with debt, or don’t have health insurance unless they take the first job that comes to them. In this framework, the Republican and larger right-wing conception of freedom is not really freedom, it is something else that when taken to its logical conclusion is antidemocratic because true freedom is only available to those who have the wealth, money, and power to exercise it. 

From this right-wing and neoliberal point of view, the only agency that a citizen has is through the so-called free market. We are seeing this play out with how the Republicans and “conservatives” are so adamantly opposed to eliminating student debt. They want to force people to look at work and survival as their main roles in society as opposed to thinking about being active democratic citizens. Americans are so laden with debt that they cannot truly be free. Moreover, the free market, especially in this late capitalist regime, is far from “free.” It is actually a system of monopoly capitalism that is anti-free markets because the very richest individuals and corporations can rig the system to their advantage. Autocrats and authoritarians can take control of such a system because its players truly believe they can make a bargain with them. Look at Russia. Vladimir Putin showed the plutocrats how he is in control and if they don’t support him then they will have their money and perhaps even lives taken away. If Trump takes power the billionaires and other plutocrats will have to bend their knee to him as well –- and he knows it and is planning on it. 

How does the American right-wing view the role of the university and education in a democracy?

The American right has always been leery of universities. This is true of the United States and other countries as well. Universities are supposed to be political. They're supposed to be places where hegemonic power and ideologies are challenged and criticized. At its best, the university is supposed to be an engine of democracy that prepares people with the tools to participate as citizens who have an input on the laws and policies that govern them. By comparison, the right wing just wants universities to be glorified job training programs.

How do you make sense of the myth of liberal higher education and how it is supposedly overrun by Marxists and Communists? 

It is right out of the Nazi political playbook. Hitler argues that all democratic institutions, such as the news media, the entertainment sector, the schools and universities are run by Marxists. In essence, anything democratic is labeled Marxist. I teach at Yale University. There are not many orthodox Marxists here. That is certain. Elite universities are stocked with centrist liberals who voted for Hillary Clinton. Bernie Sanders had almost no support at elite institutions. Today’s Republicans are largely anti-intellectual fascists, which explains why you do not see many of them as faculty or in leadership roles at good colleges or universities. Thus, the irony if you want to describe it as such: many of the leaders of the American fascist movement went to elite universities. Ron DeSantis went to Yale and Harvard. JD Vance graduated from Yale Law. Ted Cruz went to Princeton and Harvard. Their kids are going to go to Yale and Harvard and Princeton and other Ivies, but they want your kids to be trained by Prager University.

DeSantis and Vance and that ilk want to maintain these elite institutions and the social capital they confer. But the bigger plan is to shape elite institutions of higher education to fit their right-wing extreme ideology and agenda. Many of our universities are being intimidated by the right-wing in what is an example of “anticipatory obedience.” We saw this with their surrender to the right-wing reaction to the Gaza student protests. Elite institutions are ultimately about power; the elite of our society comes from institutions such as Yale and Harvard. The elite authoritarians are going to send their children to these institutions for that very reason.

When you saw the huge pile of banned books on such topics as race, gender, and sexuality that were thrown out like garbage when DeSantis’s people took over the New College of Florida, what were you thinking?

I saw the mass book burnings by the Nazis in 1933. 

What specific suggestions do you have for America’s colleges and universities in this time of democracy crisis? And for liberals and progressives more broadly?

First, this must be viewed as a war against democracy by the right-wing and the other fascists, illiberals, and authoritarians. In a war, you do not enable or help the other side. For example, you do not engage in conversations based on “mutual respect” and “the free exchange of ideas” and such niceties and quaint idealized assumptions with enemies of democracy. They only say they want a conversation because they want to get a foot in the door to take over. If you don’t realize that – and here I am speaking to so many liberals and progressives – then you are being used as dupes by these right-wingers. You're complicit. There once were intellectually honest conservatives. I hope they return. Today’s conservatives and Republicans do not care about “tradition” or “norms.” They want to up-end everything. It is a radical movement. Today’s “conservatives” are neofascists and authoritarians. They are not Edmund Burke.

Two, recognize that you can change the narrative. University administrators should not accept things, such as current public opinion, and adjust to the accepted narrative. The job of a university president is to change the narrative. Do not accept that people are hostile to the humanities and so you have to cloak your institution in the veil of STEM. Change the way people think about the humanities.

Three, stand up for your values. Institutional neutrality is a myth and a cover to get you to hide your democratic values. You should be actively defending the democratic values of freedom and equality. A democratic institution IS a political institution because it's defending democracy against other political systems such as authoritarianism in its various forms. By its nature as a democratic institution, the university is a political institution.

I receive all these emails from programs that are trying to bring Democrats and Republicans, Trump supporters and MAGA people, and those who oppose them, together for conversations to "understand one another" so we can have “civility” and “maintain community” and “get to understand each other better” to find “common ground” because "we are more alike than different." I have no interest in any of this. There is nothing to discuss. Am I being unreasonable? There are good and decent people who actually believe that engaging with neofascists and other enemies of democracy is somehow productive. 

This is the classic philosophical problem of tolerating the intolerant. You don't tolerate the intolerant by treating them as if they're tolerant. That's just foolish. Recognize that the people you are dealing with on today’s right-wing don't want to have a discussion. They want to take over your institutions, and they want to transform American society from a democracy into something else. Again, don’t be a liberal dupe or some type of useful idiot.

You are an expert in language and propaganda. How was the American right-wing able to weaponize DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) programs in higher education and elsewhere in service to their goal of ending multiracial pluralistic democracy?

The way the right-wing weaponized and distorted DEI programs is as American as apple pie. What they are basically saying is that any Black person in a position of power, particularly any Black woman, is not legitimate. Why? because positions of power should be held by white people – and preferably white men. Any other outcome is “anti-white” or the result of quotas or reverse racism or some other nonsense and racist white fantasies.

Donald Trump has made explicit xenophobia acceptable, and explicit racism more acceptable. But it is still the case that in America you need some code words for racism. DEI is such a code word and racist dog whistle. 

Part of this war on education in this time of democracy crisis involves the monitoring and harassment of teachers by the right-wing for thought crimes. This is happening across the country in public schools as well as at colleges and universities. An important and foundational question: why shouldn’t parents have the “right” to monitor a teacher in the classroom? Or the public or the larger community to monitor a college course and what is being taught there, especially at a publicly funded institution?

Educators are afraid of the fascists and other bullies. There's a group of people in this country, and any society really, who don't want minority perspectives taught. So, if the people observing you are members of dominant groups who want to exclude minority perspectives, then you know it’s not just your job, but your life that could potentially be at risk. 

Even in a less high-stakes situation, a teacher cannot do their job when they are under surveillance because that makes free discussion of ideas impossible. When you're constantly observed then you're worried about saying something that will offend someone. That is antithetical to free thinking and the democratic project in the classroom — a democratic culture. In such a classroom we are creating drones and not critical thinkers because the teachers are afraid of controversy. 

If Donald Trump and the Republicans win the upcoming election, are you staying in the country or are you leaving? You are most certainly on the enemies lists that Trump and his forces have already drawn up of people who are to be “punished” for disobedience to MAGA as enemies of the state. You could face prison or worse. I asked you this question the last time we spoke here at Salon. Where are you now?

I have had offers to teach in other countries. But I have turned down those offers even though it would be safer for me and my children. America is my damn country. It doesn’t belong to the fascists and authoritarians. I am not leaving.